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They double our BW response

#1 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-December-07, 01:32

http://tinyurl.com/yb4dd2tj

Hearts is trumps and they double our 5 response which shows one keycard.

One KC is enough but we need a diamond control. Our options are:
pass: 2nd round control
rdbl: 1st round control
5: sign off, which could be either a KC short, or a missing diamond control, or both

Partner had a diamond control so we miss a cold slam.

What about:
pass: we have enough KCs but no diamond control
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#2 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-December-07, 03:37

Your suggestion is an alternative, Helene, but I think the big problem here is that North hasn't (I assume) got the option to splinter after your 2 bid. Don't think you'll miss the slam if that happens, however...

...East then proceeds to find the extraordinary lead of a small :)
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-December-07, 05:58

Just a thought:

pass: denies diamond control. Partner can redouble to ask for the queen
rdbl: shows diamond control, asks for the queen
5: not enough keycards
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#4 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-December-07, 06:31

How do you know what GIB thinks pass shows? Usually pass has no description? Does this auction show a description for pass?
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#5 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-December-07, 14:00

View Postjohnu, on 2018-December-07, 06:31, said:

How do you know what GIB thinks pass shows? Usually pass has no description? Does this auction show a description for pass?

You can always see a definition of your own passes when deciding what to bid. Just not what passes mean by other players.

But Helene, surely if you don't have a diamond control, you cue 4 rather than 4NT. I know that doesn't normally work well with robots who don't understand cuebidding, but I would say that would be the thing worth fixing, vs trying to allow you to recover when the opponents help out with a double.
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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-December-07, 20:20

View Postsmerriman, on 2018-December-07, 14:00, said:

You can always see a definition of your own passes when deciding what to bid. Just not what passes mean by other players.

But Helene, surely if you don't have a diamond control, you cue 4 rather than 4NT. I know that doesn't normally work well with robots who don't understand cuebidding, but I would say that would be the thing worth fixing, vs trying to allow you to recover when the opponents help out with a double.

Yes, I could have cued instead of asking keycards. But since "pass" now denies a diamond control, apparently the GIB system does not require me to wait with blackwooding until I have verified all controls.

Given that I am now in a situation where I could have enough keycards but missing a diamond control, I think the system should allow me to bid such a hand somehow.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#7 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-December-07, 20:39

View Posthelene_t, on 2018-December-07, 20:20, said:

Yes, I could have cued instead of asking keycards. But since "pass" now denies a diamond control, apparently the GIB system does not require me to wait with blackwooding until I have verified all controls.

Pass doesn't deny a diamond control - it promises the king or singleton (ie no two quick losers, which is when you'd want to avoid Blackwood).

So 5 is a normal signoff, while your other options assume you didn't have two quick losers to start with.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-December-08, 03:53

View Postsmerriman, on 2018-December-07, 20:39, said:

Pass doesn't deny a diamond control - it promises the king or singleton (ie no two quick losers, which is when you'd want to avoid Blackwood).

So 5 is a normal signoff, while your other options assume you didn't have two quick losers to start with.

Yes, you are right. My problem was that pass and rdbl both promised a diamond control so I could only sign off.

Or bid slam, I suppose, just gambling that partner has a diamond control.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#9 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2018-December-08, 06:06

View Posthelene_t, on 2018-December-07, 05:58, said:

Just a thought:

pass: denies diamond control. Partner can redouble to ask for the queen
rdbl: shows diamond control, asks for the queen
5: not enough keycards

I would improves this slightly to
pass: denies diamond control. Partner signs off with no diamond control, redoubles with diamond control and no queen, other bids = diamond control, queen, and showing feature as in normal queen-ask reply


Anyway, surely GIB-East would have found the diamond underlead against 6?
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#10 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2018-December-08, 17:51

this makes me think of the blue ribbon appeal, except its gib
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