BBO Discussion Forums: RKCB Query and Hand - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1

RKCB Query and Hand

#1 User is offline   thepossum 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 458
  • Joined: 2018-July-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 2018-November-13, 22:46

Dear all

Having had a few days in the sin bin and cooling off lets try again. See if we can all have a civilised discussion about a hand without any personal insults, arrogance, obnoxiousness and rudeness. But lets just put all those rude comments behind us and move on. And please try in future to ensure that adviec on here is given in a general and constructivie way and does not in any way use ad hominem :) Oh, and please dont use this as anotther excuse to attack GIB. That gets boring too :(

Sadly the last hand I played has disappeared so I cant post it. But here is the scenario. I will try to describe it.

Using RKCB 0314

4NT bidder has 2 Aces and King of trumps - Spades are trumps

Responder (me) has Q S and one Ace (Hearts I think). We were missing Ace Clubs/Diamonds

So I respond 5D (usually I use 1430 so could have bid 5C but we were playing 0314)

Next comes question for the Queen 5H

Possible Responses are
5S if I don't have it
5NT if I do without kings
6C or 6D to show my side king - according to system I would bid cheapest K - 6C - is that correct

I made the decision rightly or wrongly to go to 6S myself (signoff) but considered 5S (even having the Queen, but didnt want to miss possible slam) since I didn't like the look of 6S

Bidding 5S would say I didn't have it when I did? But I probably should have bid that

Sure enough 6S went down 1. I don't know if it could make as I dont have the hand anymore to compare other people

Any thoughts?

Is this one of the possible traps which occasionially come up. And what is the right decision. Do you go to the 6 level even if you feel its pushing things too high

I analysed if 1430 made any difference but I think the same trap would have occurred



Best P
0

#2 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,488
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2018-November-13, 23:14

If partner is asking, it's presumably because they know what to do with the answer. So you should answer truthfully. What about the hand or earlier auction made you think that partner would not be able to place the contract with the correct information?
4

#3 User is offline   thepossum 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 458
  • Joined: 2018-July-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 2018-November-13, 23:43

Hi

Yes, I think that's right, especially since I was bidding to the 6 level anyway. I think the reason was I thought we were light on points due to earlier bidding.

I finally found the hand. Must be a delay. Many people were in 6NT, a few in 6S, all minus 1.

Thx. It may not be the best example but I feel a couple of times I have been in situations where RKCB did not seem to have a bid. This one there was a bid 6C

Best P
0

#4 User is offline   HardVector 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 336
  • Joined: 2018-May-28

Posted 2018-November-14, 01:13

The person asking keycards is the captain, and if the captain is asking about the Q, then then if the answer is yes, you are going to slam. Fyi, I normally play that 5n shows 2+ kings, 6x shows just that king and 6 of the suit denies kings. 6s can be made, btw. 4 spades, 4 hearts, K clubs (ace is onside), 2 diamonds and 1 diamond ruff. You have to be careful how you play it, though.
0

#5 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,488
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2018-November-14, 01:18

The bidding description suggests that 6S actually denies the queen, which I can't imagine is correct. 5S should deny it, 6S should show it and any other suit should show it and a side king. There is no real point in showing a king though, since you know you have a diamond loser.

There is no reason to think you are light on points though. South's bidding is fine and North's hand is unknown. True, 3D could initially have been a game try but once North bids 4D it is clear they are looking for slam.

On a side note, 6S is a much better contract than 6NT and should make. Declarer can either ruff two diamonds before drawing too many trumps or lead a club to the king near the end. A club to the 10 can't be the right play against good defenders and is less likely to work against any defender than simply playing for East to hold the king.
3

#6 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,476
  • Joined: 2003-May-14

Posted 2018-November-14, 01:37

Rkc bidder is captain. You don't ever second guess and lie, after all on this auction partner has not limited their hand at any point. How do you know the bot doesn't have enough for grand? Don't make assumptions without evidence.

On the play, best is probably to go for two diamond ruffs, planning on 4 trumps, 4 hearts, two diamonds, two ruffs (drawing 3 rounds of trumps immediately therefore an inferior line, requiring a minor finesse at some point, or dq dropping or being ruffed out). When the q shows up on the first ruff you just draw trumps since the dj is now good, don't need the second ruff anymore.

[Edited - shouldn't post when half asleep; no transport to take both minor finesses if taking the heart pitch after trump drawn]
If you do mistakenly draw trumps, you still can make, but you should try to preserve best chances. Play hearts pitching a club, then pick a minor finesse to take.Club Ace onside is much higher chance than cqj onside and they didn't split, which is essentially what you played for.

1

#7 User is offline   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,181
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2018-November-14, 01:42

View Postsfi, on 2018-November-14, 01:18, said:

The bidding description suggests that 6S actually denies the queen, which I can't imagine is correct. 5S should deny it, 6S should show it and any other suit should show it and a side king.

6 is pretty much undefined I think. GIB uses 5N to show the queen without a king.
Feel free to send me a friend challenge of any format as often as you like. I'll always accept :)
0

#8 User is offline   The_Badger 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,123
  • Joined: 2013-January-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, Chess, Film, Literature, Herbal Medicine, Nutrition

Posted 2018-November-14, 05:11

The other commentators have covered all the bases. Basically Blackwood is a one of the simplest types of bridge relay for information. There are whole bridge systems based on relay responses. One is the driver, and the other a passenger. So it's important if you are passenger not to grab the steering wheel. Bridge bidding is disciplined. The bidding up to 5 is textbook and exemplary. When you bid 6 you have effectively lost trust in partner. (And yes, logic dictates that if the robot has made a previous game try and is asking for the Q that it wants to play in a slam, and you know that you are already missing the A) Ok, on this occasion, your partner is a robot so it doesn't matter. But if you were playing with a regular human partner and 'try to bid their cards for them' then you are going to become unstuck.

I hope the above doesn't sound too didactic, but it is a valid point. Bridge is a game based on trust.

This sentence is interesting: I made the decision rightly or wrongly to go to 6S myself (signoff) but considered 5S (even having the Queen, but didnt want to miss possible slam) since I didn't like the look of 6S . What didn't you like about 6? You had told partner in a number of bids previously your hand perfectly, absolutely perfectly. You had four card support headed by an honour - it could be three card support on some occasions - and had described your maximum balanced hand. It is then partner's decision whether he or it (being a robot) decides whether 6 is a feasible contract.

6 is a great place to be. Don't worry too much about going down at this stage, especially if you are getting back into bridge. It's annoying, especially as the contract can be made, but over time you will be making more and more contracts as you practice more. The important thing is bidding those contracts in the first instance.
1

#9 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,488
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2018-November-14, 05:36

View Postsmerriman, on 2018-November-14, 01:42, said:

6 is pretty much undefined I think. GIB uses 5N to show the queen without a king.

Really? That's the first time I've run into anyone playing that, but at least it explains the explanation. Thanks.
0

#10 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,476
  • Joined: 2003-May-14

Posted 2018-November-14, 08:16

5n to show Q without K is theoretically better so partner can employ other 6 level bids as 3rd round control (Q / doubleton) asks which might be necessary to bid a grand without guesswork. But useless with GIB.
0

#11 User is offline   steve2005 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,843
  • Joined: 2010-April-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hamilton, Canada
  • Interests:Bridge duh!

Posted 2018-November-14, 11:40

The bidding is fine and the responses were all reasonable.
You reached a 50% slam which is ok.
But you didnt take a play that had a decent chance to make.
When you play a club simply play K and it makes. If Ace is behind you then you are down.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1


Fast Reply

  

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users