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7-4 in majors

#1 User is offline   Povratnik 

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Posted 2018-November-09, 11:19


I don't know whether it's an AI limitation, or a system limitation (I never played 2/1 with human, so I'm semicompetent at best), but this auction (with this cards) should be impossible even in semicompetent human partnerships.
Since robot doesn't have intelligence, it also doesn't have responsibility - so the grave mistake is undoubtedly mine. My 3H bid was obviously lethal, but the question is - would my bidding be wrong even if I played with competent human?

- if the answer is YES, what should I have done?
- if the answer is NO, what would my competent partner do?

(I am not whining about missing game, it's about the hand my partner has. He/she/it has to be aware of very real slam possibilities...)
Alien in the XXI century, arrived by time machine
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#2 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-November-09, 11:45

"It" is not aware of anything, and probably just as well given the thankless existence it endures :)
But the answer I would say is YES, even though near borderline.
You have only two natural bids available, 3 which is inviting and 4 which is signoff.
Your hand is just good enough to justify 4 IMO.
Of course the Robot was crazy to pass, but that's another story.
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#3 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2018-November-09, 12:32

I am not sure 2 minor queens when partner has at most 4 minor cards are good assets to blast game even if technically speaking in terms of HCPs you are super max. Make them an A or the SQ and I am more eager to bid 4 directly w/o consulting partner.
Your partner should of course bid them. But most humans would have forgotten to mention those 4 small hearts vs the self-sufficient S suit and be in 4S.
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#4 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-November-09, 12:37

View Postapollo1201, on 2018-November-09, 12:32, said:

But most humans would have forgotten to mention those 4 small hearts vs the self-sufficient S suit and be in 4S.


This.
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#5 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-November-09, 14:51

View PostPovratnik, on 2018-November-09, 11:19, said:

Since robot doesn't have intelligence, it also doesn't have responsibility...


But it is entirely responsible for you missing game. Period.

Bidding 4 instead of 3 is a slight overbid imo.
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#6 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2018-November-09, 14:55

Given the bidding by opener, you're bidding is correct.

It's up to opener, with a huge playing hand, to carry on beyond 3 .

I'd be very likely as opener to just bid 4 over 1 NT.
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#7 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-November-09, 15:44

I don't know whether it's an AI limitation, or a system limitation (I never played 2/1 with human, so I'm semicompetent at best), but this auction (with this cards) should be impossible even in semicompetent human partnerships.
Since robot doesn't have intelligence, it also doesn't have responsibility - so the grave mistake is undoubtedly mine. My 3H bid was obviously lethal, but the question is - would my bidding be wrong even if I played with competent human?
- if the answer is YES, what should I have done?
- if the answer is NO, what would my competent partner do?
(I am not whining about missing game, it's about the hand my partner has. He/she/it has to be aware of very real slam possibilities...)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IMO, as a Bridge Idiot Savant, Gib is brighter than most of his opponents.
For example, GIb's 2 bid is fine
Unfortunately, Gib still grossly undervalued his hand after your 3 raise.
So the poor result is Gib's fault
There's not much you can do about it
But Gib;s programmers could improve his hand-evaluation function.
And they should make sure that Gib can understand FD files so that
-- he can adjust to his partner's system preferences and
-- understand the methods of human opponents.

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#8 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-November-10, 03:44

If I bid 2 with the North hand, I would never pass 3. That being said, I would never bid 2. You may end up playing 2 in a bad 4-3 trump fit instead of spades which is playable opposite a void.
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#9 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-November-10, 07:37

View Postjohnu, on 2018-November-10, 03:44, said:

That being said, I would never bid 2. You may end up playing 2 in a bad 4-3 trump fit instead of spades which is playable opposite a void.

On reflection,JohnU is right. I'm afraid that I might bid the poor suit but it would be a mistake..
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#10 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2018-November-13, 11:59

Hi,

the 3H is ok.
Rule based, even with simulation, the Pass of 3H is also ok,
opener has to expect club wastage.

Obviously most humans would not show the 4 heart, but the 6th spade,
responder will raise to 3S, ..., now it is also not 100% clear, if
opener should bid 4S due to the risk of club wastage, and the amount of
possible heart loosers.

Opening 4S instead of 1S is reasonable, but not mandatory.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#11 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-November-13, 20:45

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2018-November-13, 11:59, said:

Obviously most humans would not show the 4 heart, but the 6th spade,
responder will raise to 3S, ...,


If they show a 6th spade, would they show a 7th spade too?
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#12 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2018-November-13, 22:11

1-1NT-4 or on a cautious day I just rebid 3 which off course gets raised to 4.
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#13 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2018-November-14, 08:09

View Postjohnu, on 2018-November-13, 20:45, said:

If they show a 6th spade, would they show a 7th spade too?

How do you show the 7th spade? Except with an direct opening of 4S.
If you open 1S, a judgement call, you can only how the 6th spade.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#14 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2018-November-14, 08:10

View Postneilkaz, on 2018-November-13, 22:11, said:

1-1NT-4 or on a cautious day I just rebid 3 which off course gets raised to 4.

Given that the GIBs play forcing NT, i.e. 1NT can contain a 3 card limit raise, this seq. could
get you over board, of course if you dont play forcing NT, than 4S will end the auction, but with
forcing NT it may or may not.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#15 User is offline   dokoko 

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Posted 2018-November-15, 13:57

Those who bid 4 opposite a partner who hasn't promised any extras why not start with a 2/1? . Good luck opposite KQxxx QJxx Ax xx!
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#16 User is offline   Povratnik 

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Posted 2018-November-16, 17:01

Apologies to everyone, I was occupied by some RL issues.

The fact No1
We could have a cold slam with same strength and same distribution in my hand (Ad instead of two queens or just a Qh instead of Qc)

The fact No2
Even if I had Ad, I'd still bid only 3h, being just TOO flat

It's the combination of those facts that disturbed me enough to open a thread. So the final verdict is:

If I played with competent human, we'd play a game, but there still wouldn't be a slam try by my opponent.

OK, I can live with that, though the deepest motive for opening a thread was the HOPE. I was hoping that I'll learn something magical.
But no matter how magically atractive the game of bridge is - it seems it just doesn't contain magical solutions...
Alien in the XXI century, arrived by time machine
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