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Open in 4th seat?

Poll: Open in 4th seat? (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Your bid?

  1. Pass (9 votes [47.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.37%

  2. 1S (10 votes [52.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.63%

  3. 2S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 1NT (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Something else (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-November-12, 02:11



IMPs.

This is a horrid 11-count. But you do own the spade suit. You play four-card majors with a weak NT and 2M shows a weak two-suiter, although we prefer 5-5 at this vulnerability.

Do you open?
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#2 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2018-November-12, 03:04

View PostTramticket, on 2018-November-12, 02:11, said:



IMPs.

This is a horrid 11-count. But you do own the spade suit. You play four-card majors with a weak NT and 2M shows a weak two-suiter, although we prefer 5-5 at this vulnerability.

Do you open?

I think this is difficult to answer without knowing one’s style in 2nd seat. In my regular partnership, this is an easy pass because we open most flat 11 counts. With a (far) more conservative style, opening is somewhat easier to justify. However, I have no Aces and a crap suit, so I’d pass unless playing Roth-Stone, where Partner could have a decen5 13 count. Since nobody plays R-S anymore, for good readon, I pass.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#3 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-November-12, 03:18

View Postmikeh, on 2018-November-12, 03:04, said:

I think this is difficult to answer without knowing one’s style in 2nd seat. In my regular partnership, this is an easy pass because we open most flat 11 counts. With a (far) more conservative style, opening is somewhat easier to justify. However, I have no Aces and a crap suit, so I’d pass unless playing Roth-Stone, where Partner could have a decen5 13 count. Since nobody plays R-S anymore, for good readon, I pass.


Our 1NT is 12-14. We pass most balanced 11-counts and open almost all unbalanced 11-counts.
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#4 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2018-November-12, 04:40

Hi,

also relevant: do you have to play 3S, if partner has 9-10 with a fit, or do you play some kind of Drury?

I think I would pass most of the time, but I can see myself bidding 1S some of the time.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#5 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-November-12, 04:53

View PostTramticket, on 2018-November-12, 02:11, said:



IMPs.
This is a horrid 11-count. But you do own the spade suit. You play four-card majors with a weak NT and 2M shows a weak two-suiter, although we prefer 5-5 at this vulnerability.
Do you open?

I rank
  • 1 = NAT (Assuming, like Marlowe, that you play Drury)
  • Pass = NAT (For the reasons advanced my MikeH)
  • 1N = NAT (Danger in round suits).
  • 2 = NAT (Misdescriptive of suit quality).

View PostTramticket, on 2018-November-12, 03:18, said:

Our 1NT is 12-14. We pass most balanced 11-counts and open almost all unbalanced 11-counts.

IMO, Tramticket's agreement is nearer 11-14 than 12-14.
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#6 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-November-12, 05:13

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2018-November-12, 04:40, said:

also relevant: do you have to play 3S, if partner has 9-10 with a fit, or do you play some kind of Drury?


No Drury available I'm afraid.
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#7 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-November-12, 06:11

How do you know you own the suit? Rule of 15 says open (but I'm not a great Marty Bergen fan myself). K&R puts this horrid 11 count at a even grottier 8.85. Are you that desperate to gain 3-4 IMPs here, whereas you could lose 7-11 if doubled, even 13 on a bad day? Even with Drury this could go horribly wrong; without it it's even worse.

One of Badger's rules is "Don't bid grot hands if you don't have to". In my Acol Noob day I wouldn't dream of opening this hand. Why should it be any different now?
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#8 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2018-November-12, 07:01

I do tend to adhere to the Rule of 15, but this hand doesn't qualify. I estimate the godawful nominal 11 point are worth about 9 plus 5 spades equals only 14. Give me a sixth spade, and I open, but even then I'm not happy about it.

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#9 User is offline   wuudturner 

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Posted 2018-November-13, 06:52

This hand is pushing it even for me to bid. Most of the values are in short suits. My spades are terrible. If they get the contract, do I really want to tell partner to lead spades? The hand is worth something well under the 11 HCP it counts to. (The K&R number mentioned above seems about right for the real value of the hand.)

Partner passed in this auction. We learn that partner would have opened most 11 counts, with 1NT=12-14. So partner might have a balanced 11 count. One thing I worry about is that partner was in second seat, vulnerable. That is the one position when partner is most likely to rein things in a bit by an initial pass, meaning partner might have sufficient values to get excited when I do bid. I do not want to be in 2NT or 3♠ on this hand.

Just toss it in and hope for something good on the next hand.
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#10 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2018-November-13, 07:56

Highly limited defense, game a rarity opposite passed partner and not even a good lead directing opening bid makes me pass this potential disaster hand and try to win imps on the next one.
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