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Concede or not?

#1 User is offline   r8864 

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Posted 2018-November-07, 02:53

We frequently have a situation where as a declarer you have in your remaining cards all trumps (no outstanding trump at defense) + 1 loser. Do you claim all and concede one, or do you cash all trumps and see if your opponent will make a mistake in discard? I never concede in this situation since I risk nothing but 1 out of like 10 times an extra trick is gained. What's your view on it?
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#2 User is online   gordontd 

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Posted 2018-November-07, 05:05

View Postr8864, on 2018-November-07, 02:53, said:

We frequently have a situation where as a declarer you have in your remaining cards all trumps (no outstanding trump at defense) + 1 loser. Do you claim all and concede one, or do you cash all trumps and see if your opponent will make a mistake in discard? I never concede in this situation since I risk nothing but 1 out of like 10 times an extra trick is gained. What's your view on it?

If you are gaining 10% of the time you should certainly play it out. However, there are times when your expectation of gaining a trick must be 0%.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#3 User is online   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-November-07, 05:55

A few thoughts:
(1) Don't insult people by playing on when you know that they know what your last card is. It slows the game and causes bad feeling. But play on where there can be reasonable doubt.
(2) What your opponents will know will depend on the level of game and expertise. Even beginners can work out that if you have discarded in two suits then your last card must be in the other non-trump suit. Genuine experts can be expected to have a good picture of the hand by the time you get to playing off your suit.
(3) Playing for a discarding error to make an over-trick (or save an under-trick) at Rubber bridge and even at IMPs is rather petty. It might be more acceptable at MPs, where an over-trick gained might be the difference between a top and a bottom.
(4) If you are going to try for a discarding error, then you should arrange your early play to mask your distribution as far as possible and maybe consider a deceptive play to trick opponents into mis-reading the distribution.
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#4 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-November-07, 06:52

View PostTramticket, on 2018-November-07, 05:55, said:

(1) Don't insult people by playing on when you know that they know what your last card is. It slows the game and causes bad feeling. But play on where there can be reasonable doubt.
(2) What your opponents will know will depend on the level of game and expertise.


Unfortunately there is some conflict between these two (valid) points: your decision to play on or not reflects your assessment of the opponent's expertise, and a negative assessment may be perceived as insulting even when it has some basis. Although in my experience this is more of an issue with poor intermediates than with novice/beginners, who usually take it for granted that one should play on for a mistake by opponents and even feel some pride when it works.
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#5 User is online   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-November-07, 08:33

View Postpescetom, on 2018-November-07, 06:52, said:

Unfortunately there is some conflict between these two (valid) points: your decision to play on or not reflects your assessment of the opponent's expertise, and a negative assessment may be perceived as insulting even when it has some basis.


Agreed. But a bit of common sense can be very useful.
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#6 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-November-07, 08:49

I never concede in this situation since I risk nothing but 1 out of like 10 times an extra trick is gained.

I think you have answered your question with this sentence. And as you posted it in the "Novice and Beginner Forum" I would encourage all players at this level to play their cards as they wish. For me, there's nothing wrong in doing what you are doing. There's no rule that says that you have to make a quick claim, though some opponents might complain if the situation is obvious. Sometimes it is just as quick to play out the last few cards than to make a claim on here, especially if an opponent misses it.
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#7 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2018-November-07, 08:54

View Postr8864, on 2018-November-07, 02:53, said:

We frequently have a situation where as a declarer you have in your remaining cards all trumps (no outstanding trump at defense) + 1 loser. Do you claim all and concede one, or do you cash all trumps and see if your opponent will make a mistake in discard? I never concede in this situation since I risk nothing but 1 out of like 10 times an extra trick is gained. What's your view on it?

At this level, play it out unless it is a game with friends. At a high level, one virtually never gains a trick.

Indeed, in an expert game, both defenders and, often, dummy usually know the situation almost as soon as does declarer.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#8 User is offline   akwoo 

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Posted 2018-November-07, 19:25

If the situation is indeed obvious, the defender with the winner in the suit can claim. ("I'm keeping the king of clubs; making 3.")
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#9 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-November-08, 15:36

View Postakwoo, on 2018-November-07, 19:25, said:

If the situation is indeed obvious, the defender with the winner in the suit can claim. ("I'm keeping the king of clubs; making 3.")


That's fine, but obvious is not obvious to Novice and Beginner.
Nobody will volunteer that they lose everything except the king of clubs.
Even if declarer says "I concede only the king of clubs", he will probably be greeted by frowns and a request to play on.
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#10 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted Today, 03:27

Just a few thoughts on this discussion.

I would expect better players to be accepting of less experienced players wanting to play without taking it as insults

The reason many people want to play on is not hoping for a mistake. They just want to see the cards play out. You are entitled in bridge to see all cards played out. Nobody should get upset with less experienced players.

As I have observed elsewhere there seem to be serious problems with some people taking offense at things all the time.

Penultimate point. We were all beginners once and if we were lucky played kind and patient, not obnoxious ops.

Oh, and this is the novice and beginner forum.. people seem to forget that

P
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