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Not good enough for 2C?

#1 User is offline   wbartley 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 11:02

IMP game. Human South.


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#2 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 11:25

Most experts don't like to open 2 on 2 suited hands, especially with only 8 clear winners and 3 sure losers.
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#3 User is offline   wbartley 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 14:21

View PostTylerE, on 2018-September-21, 11:25, said:

Most experts don't like to open 2 on 2 suited hands, especially with only 8 clear winners and 3 sure losers.


If your partner holds the queen of diamonds, you're probably cold for game. I would guess most experts would bid 2 with this hand. If it's easy to construct a hand for partner where 1 gets passed out that is laydown for game and you have a hand of great general strength, you should probably open 2. That's my opinion.
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#4 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 14:48

4-losers and a self-sufficient suit, open 2!
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#5 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 14:48

East had every right to pass. Nor does West really need or justify 2C. I would bid 2nt despite those clubs.
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#6 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 15:45

West's hand is good enough to open 2 and rebid 2NT either through Kokish or directly, I feel, despite those poor s.
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#7 User is offline   DozyDom 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 16:20

The E bot's pass of 2S seems like by far the worst bid in this sequence.
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#8 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 16:20

View PostThe_Badger, on 2018-September-21, 15:45, said:

West's hand is good enough to open 2 and rebid 2NT either through Kokish or directly, I feel, despite those poor s.

You would put a 21 point 5422 through 2C-2NT rather than just 2NT? Not the way we play,with 1NT 15-17 and 2NT 20-21. Partner knows our strength and will find the 3-5 major fit if he's interested.
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#9 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2018-September-21, 17:01

View Postpescetom, on 2018-September-21, 16:20, said:

You would put a 21 point 5422 through 2C-2NT . . .


21? You're permitted to use more than fingers and toes: KnR
Partner can still find the major fit if opened 2.
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#10 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2018-September-22, 06:52

much prefer 1H to 2C I think you're just wrong in your assumption that most experts would open 2C with this hand
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#11 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-22, 08:18

View Postmasse24, on 2018-September-21, 17:01, said:

21? You're permitted to use more than fingers and toes

Sure, the hand is worth more than it's 21 HCP suggests, but if you bid it as 24 balanced then partner raising quantitatively to slam is going to be out a king or so. If partner is interested in hearts you still have time to show extra strength and spell out your controls.
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#12 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-September-22, 11:58

View Posteagles123, on 2018-September-22, 06:52, said:

much prefer 1H to 2C I think you're just wrong in your assumption that most experts would open 2C with this hand


In 4th seat I'm opening 2 here. You need so little for game to be on. The only reason why West was allowed to bid again was due to South's - very dubious in my personal opinion - balance after his robot partner had passed in 1st seat.
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#13 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2018-September-23, 21:29

Not good enough for opening 2, but I would like to open 2nt for such hand even with five-card major suit.
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#14 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-December-20, 15:02

IMO, if you open 2C with this hand you will wind up in too many bad slams - 2C bidding structures are the worst part of standard approach-forcing bidding. Unless willing to adopt a forcing club system, the only option is to understand and accept that every once and a while you will languish in 1 when game is a make.
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#15 User is offline   svengolly 

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Posted 2019-January-18, 09:51

GIB's handling of 2C openers is poor in general IMHO. You can have 9 playing tricks and 18 HCP and GIB will raise to an unmakeable NT slam because it "knows" you must have 21 HCP. And the positive NT response it seems to favor (more than any human would) often wrongsides or gets the contract to a weird place. To the OP's hand in question, my regular human pards and I would probably open it 2C. Maybe 2N. 8 tricks, 4 losers, good suit, 21 HCP. It's too strong for 1H. But then we'd have better methods or maybe wisdom for bidding after 2C than GIB.
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#16 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-January-18, 15:25

View Postmasse24, on 2018-September-21, 17:01, said:

21? You're permitted to use more than fingers and toes: KnR


Yes, you need more than fingers and toes to evaluate a hand using K&R.
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#17 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-January-18, 15:29

The GIB EW auction by both hands looks a little surreal to me. They probably end up in a lot of contracts like 3
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