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It's hearts illusions I recall bidding strong hands

#1 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 15:38

A hand dealt manually yesterday.
MPs, nobody vulnerable, dealer is North and leads 1.
How would your partnership bid on in absence of competition?


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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 17:11

1-1
2-4

Maybe I miss a slam if partner has A5432 but you can't always get complete science,
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#3 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 17:45


South has 8+ playing tricks, so is probably worth 2 (4th suit).
South's sequence shows good s.
North has good controls and might cue 4 but should probably pass.

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#4 User is offline   thawp66 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 23:14

North has 14 cards. I wonder if that can result in an extra overtrick or undertrick?
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#5 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 00:56

View Postthawp66, on 2018-September-15, 23:14, said:

North has 14 cards. I wonder if that can result in an extra overtrick or undertrick?

Yes, a call for the director needed.

I would be more excited if you remove a spade, but we are still playing 4H, probably on Cyberyeti's auction.
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#6 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 01:02

Diagram corrected now, thanks.
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#7 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 01:39

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-September-15, 17:11, said:

1-1
2-4

Maybe I miss a slam if partner has A5432 but you can't always get complete science,


Agree. With the North hand now corrected to 3064, I'd just see the auction going 1 - 1 - 2 - 4. When both hands see their partner bidding their voids, their are no frills here.
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#8 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 01:42

You all too clever for me
Only one more bid in my auction 4
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#9 User is offline   maartenxq 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 03:38

View Postpescetom, on 2018-September-15, 15:38, said:

How would your partnership bid on in absence of competition?

1 - 4
because of void in opening suit. This can miss a slam however.

1 - 2
3 - 4

therefore I would bid 2 forcing and then 4 to show a hand like this. If partner can continue now slam must be good. Partner will now pass.


Maarten Baltussen
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#10 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 06:25

Here's the full hand.



Not particularly proud of our bidding. We're a fairly ethical pair, but there probably was some UI flying around with such attractive hands in misfit. Once partner bid 3 showing mild slam interest I couldn't resist and asked keycards (too late to fix suit and control-bid effectively), so we stopped on the edge of the precipice. With hindsight, 1 4 pass would not be a mistake.
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#11 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 07:29

View Postpescetom, on 2018-September-16, 06:25, said:

Here's the full hand.



Not particularly proud of our bidding. We're a fairly ethical pair, but there probably was some UI flying around with such attractive hands in misfit. Once partner bid 3 showing mild slam interest I couldn't resist and asked keycards (too late to fix suit and control-bid effectively), so we stopped on the edge of the precipice. With hindsight, 1 4 pass would not be a mistake.


What was the purpose of South's 2 bid? Was it intended as 4th suit forcing with a view to playing in NTs? If so,it was a ridiculous bid.
in the face of a total misfit. Hands that don't fit in a suit very often don't fit in No Trumps either(!) After the 2 bid South should simply jump to 4
direct sending the message "I insist we play the hand in MY suit partner. Please pass"
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
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#12 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 07:50

View PostPhilG007, on 2018-September-16, 07:29, said:

After the 2 bid South should simply jump to 4 direct sending the message "I insist we play the hand in MY suit partner. Please pass"

North should also pass with

A
Kxx
AJxxx
Axxx

?
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#13 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 09:44

DELETED
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#14 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 09:44

DELETED.SLOW NETWORK.
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#15 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 09:45

.SLOW NETWORK .SORRY.DELETED
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#16 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 09:45

View Postpescetom, on 2018-September-15, 15:38, said:

A hand dealt manually yesterday.
MPs, nobody vulnerable, dealer is North and leads 1.
How would your partnership bid on in absence of competition?



Sir,we shall bid 1D-4H showing an 8 carder suit headed by the Ace and two of the four top honors.Since opener has only three QUICK tricks he will PASS.YES and someday we might lose when partner produces Axxx-K-QJxxx-AQx
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#17 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 12:59

View Postpescetom, on 2018-September-16, 06:25, said:

Not particularly proud of our bidding. We're a fairly ethical pair, but there probably was some UI flying around with such attractive hands in misfit. Once partner bid 3 showing mild slam interest I couldn't resist and asked keycards (too late to fix suit and control-bid effectively), so we stopped on the edge of the precipice. With hindsight, 1 4 pass would not be a mistake.


It would for us, 1-4 asks for keycards, so we would have to take it slower.

Since we play 1-1-2m-3 as forcing and 4 as to play, I'm not totally clear which is the right bid here, but I lean towards 4
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#18 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 15:02

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-September-16, 12:59, said:

It would for us, 1-4 asks for keycards, so we would have to take it slower.

The price for that is the inability to close down a hand like this, maybe without K... but I'm sure it has advantages too, the important thing about agreements is to agree.

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-September-16, 12:59, said:

Since we play 1-1-2m-3 as forcing and 4 as to play, I'm not totally clear which is the right bid here, but I lean towards 4

Fair enough. For us 1-1-2m-3 is non-forcing and 4 is to play, a premise to my comment about 4SF below.

View PostPhilG007, on 2018-September-16, 07:29, said:

What was the purpose of South's 2 bid? Was it intended as 4th suit forcing with a view to playing in NTs? If so,it was a ridiculous bid.
in the face of a total misfit. Hands that don't fit in a suit very often don't fit in No Trumps either(!) After the 2 bid South should simply jump to 4 direct sending the message "I insist we play the hand in MY suit partner. Please pass"

As previously said, I have some sympathy with a direct jump to 4; given the void in opener's suit it is quite probably all we are worth. Nor am I thrilled with the 2 bid, which risks conveying excessive enthusiasm to partner and obliging us to reveal unnecessary information to opponents. Having said that, I think it is technically sound and far from ridiculous. The purpose is obviously not to look for an unlikely 3NT contract but to install a game force and investigate opener's hand. If North happens to be able to raise to 3 South can control-bid to slam, if North signs off in 4 South is out of his agony, if North rebids 3 or bids 3NT then South can cheerfully sign off in 4. The error is that South did not sign off after 3 but instead bid 3 showing some persisting slam interest, and that North then took the risk of asking Keycards. Luckily it didn't do any damage this time.
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#19 User is offline   bluechip10 

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Posted 2018-September-17, 11:34

View Postpescetom, on 2018-September-15, 15:38, said:

A hand dealt manually yesterday.
MPs, nobody vulnerable, dealer is North and leads 1.
How would your partnership bid on in absence of competition?



1D--1H
2D--3H
4C--4H

Recognizing that NT is probably a failure and looking at the losers. I'm satisfied with 4hts as a final contract. If we make six--then the 2 dia bidder underbid.
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#20 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-17, 13:28

View Postbluechip10, on 2018-September-17, 11:34, said:

1D--1H
2D--3H
4C--4H

Recognizing that NT is probably a failure and looking at the losers. I'm satisfied with 4hts as a final contract. If we make six--then the 2 dia bidder underbid.


Maybe your 2 bidder underbid anyway... but yes NT is almost certainly a failure and South would do well to be satisfied with 4.
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