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Is this a 2C opener, and how best to find slam?

#21 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 09:36

View Postel mister, on 2018-September-14, 03:55, said:

My wife showed me this hand she played at the club last night - matchpoint game, S is dealer. The room results suggested the bidding methods on display did not deliver. How would you tackle this, and how high do you want to get? Also, is this a 2C opener in your book?



Sir,when playing Standard we do open the hand 1C and not 2C.,since the way we play it 2C opening has 23+HCP if NT pattern ,9+winners if its a major suiter and 10+ winners if a minor suiter. A 2D response shows 0 to7 HCP or less than 1 and half Tricks.There is NO WAITING 2D BID.Hence this hand does not qualify.We open 1C and responder will bid 4H showing a 8 carder suit headed by Ace and 2 of the3 tops .(with a weaker suit we start with 1H and go on rebidding hearts upto 4H.bidding it directly if opener shows a dislike and a moderate hand) AS the openers hand provides 5 Quick winners he bids 5NT requesting responder to bid 6H with 3 i.e. AKjJ10 and 7H with all 4 tops.Of course this way we cannot bid 7NT on the present strong hand as it is void in hearts.But if responder bids 7H and opener has x hearts.can safely bid 7NT.Opener then may have a flat hand like AKxx-x-Axxx-AKxx (when he will bid 7NT).
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#22 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 10:22

I like mikeh's auction, but how about

1-1
2-3
3N-5!?
5N-6
P,

where 5 is EKCB with hearts as trumps and 5N shows 2 or 5 key-cards outside diamonds and denies the trump queen?

The risk is that partner doesn't have the A for his 2 bid AND opps are not dissuaded from leading diamonds.
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#23 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 10:25

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-September-14, 22:27, said:

Three-suiters are notoriously hard to bid. Even a stronger hand than this it could still be right to open 1.
Three suiters play well if you find a fit so you may need to make 3 natural bids for best result.
If you have a way to show a 3-suiter after opening 2 is different but most don't.
Is perfect hand for a strong 2 three suiter bid if you want to wait 6 months for such a hand to come up if Multi isn't allowed.

Sir I humbly suggest that THE BLUE TEAM CLUB 2D OPENING is available to replace the 2D, as weak in Diamonds, be strongly considered.THE bid covers almost all three suited hands holding 17 to24 HCP
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#24 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 10:40

View PostThe_Badger, on 2018-September-14, 07:19, said:

The Hideous Hog would be in a Moysian 7 contract on this and would succeed given a few good breaks in the side suits and a finesse, even on a trump lead :)

Sir.INDEED.and VICTOR MOLLO was perhaps the best writer of amusing Bridge stories.
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#25 User is online   RD350LC 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 14:26

View Postel mister, on 2018-September-14, 03:55, said:

My wife showed me this hand she played at the club last night - matchpoint game, S is dealer. The room results suggested the bidding methods on display did not deliver. How would you tackle this, and how high do you want to get? Also, is this a 2C opener in your book?



By some people, a 2 club opener is defined as 20+ hcp, or a 4 loser hand. By this definition, this would be a 2 club opener.
However, I would not open this 2 clubs. A strong 3 suited hand is difficult to describe at the best of times, and opening this 2 clubs makes this harder.
I would open this 1 club, and jump in spades over the (expected) heart response.
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#26 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 14:44

View Postjillybean, on 2018-September-15, 06:45, said:

I play 1C 2H as gf, self sufficient suit which forces opener to cue. It doesnt come up often, but when it does it seems to be a good method to find slam.

Responders hand is certainly worth a SJS (Soloway style), and if you have it av. go for it.
I was reflecting between my auction and MikeH's auction, my auction uses FSF, which is not
really req., and depending on your culture, my 3D FSF bid, may not be FSF for you at all.
If it is FSF, than it gives you one more step room, allowing p, to show something, but ...
the probability is low, that it will be helpful ( On some days, partner may have 65, and he
may be able to show it with 3S, depending on your agreement.)
The SJS auction would allow you to verify, that 7H is not really good. SJS work, they just felt
a bit out of fashion.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#27 User is offline   dsLawsd 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 15:09

Not a 2 club opener- 3 suitted hands need space.
One alternative is to bid 2as the reverse and hear partners reply. If partner does not support the forcing heart reply then most likely 6 hearts will close the auction. Someone might guess to try 7 against a stronger team at imps.
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#28 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 15:16

View PostdsLawsd, on 2018-September-15, 15:09, said:

Not a 2 club opener- 3 suitted hands need space.
One alternative is to bid 2as the reverse and hear partners reply. If partner does not support the forcing heart reply then most likely 6 hearts will close the auction. Someone might guess to try 7 against a stronger team at imps.


If you're going to bid 7, bid it in NT where Q10x onside also bails you out if the hearts don't behave.
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#29 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 15:49

After reading this topic I was amused to see how a similar hand of hearts worked out last night... to avoid confusion I started a new topic in this forum.
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#30 User is online   RD350LC 

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Posted 2018-September-15, 16:00

View Postmsjennifer, on 2018-September-15, 10:40, said:

Sir.INDEED.and VICTOR MOLLO was perhaps the best writer of amusing Bridge stories.

I agree that Victor Mollo was a very good writer of amusing bridge stories. I would add that David Bird and his Abbot stories are just as funny.
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#31 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 09:55

If you want an oddball reply ...
For me this is a 3-suiter open, with a major shortage, so I have available 1 for up to 20hcp, and 2 for 21+. The JT in spades, and the void, make it a touch better than would be expected for a normal 20 hcp 4144, so I upgrade to 21 and open 2. This is Ekren weak both majors, or the strong 3-suiter. Responder picks his best major of 2M unless seeking game on the weak option, when he bids a general 2NT inquiry or invites in one of the majors. Here if it is both majors I am not interested in spades, so make a game try in hearts by bidding 3.

3NT from opener shows a 3-suiter short in hearts, and then we just pick a nominal trump suit and find opener's strength range. We are a level higher than after a normal 2M, but the strength indicates slam is not unlikely, so we use the same methods but a level higher than normal.

2 - 3
3NT - 4 I have no real intention in playing in spades, as I will probably convert to 6/7NT eventually (I know we have 34hcp minimum), but with this suit I get surefire knowledge of whether the Q is an entry.
4NT(21-23hcp) - 5(next step asks singleton or void short suit)
5(void, as 5 is singleton) - 5NT("ace asking")
6(OK, funny method, but this is 0 or 4 out of 5, ie the 3 aces and king of spades, as I have the Q) - 6NT

6NT has to be to play, as we don't ask for side kings when an ask commits to grand. I know we have 34-36 hcp, and I have 2 entries with diamonds and spades, so can get the hearts running, but we do lose (probably) that Q. Other than that, I have 15 tricks.

Edit - corrected 4 typo to 5
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#32 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 09:56

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-September-14, 22:27, said:

Is perfect hand for a strong 2 three suiter bid if you want to wait 6 months for such a hand to come up if Multi isn't allowed.

But if you play an unbalanced 1 with exactly the same methods over a weaker 3-suiter, then there is no memory needed for 2. 1 3-suiters happen frequently enough that the methods are well engrained.
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#33 User is online   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 12:27

View Postmsjennifer, on 2018-September-15, 10:25, said:

Sir I humbly suggest that THE BLUE TEAM CLUB 2D OPENING is available to replace the 2D, as weak in Diamonds, be strongly considered.THE bid covers almost all three suited hands holding 17 to24 HCP


I said is a "perfect hand for a strong 2D 3-suiter..."
Blue team would be included in this type of bid.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#34 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 15:56

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-September-16, 12:27, said:

I said is a "perfect hand for a strong 2D 3-suiter..."
Blue team would be included in this type of bid.


Playing in Italy I still encounter people who open this way.
More often than not we are grateful.
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#35 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-September-16, 19:25

View PostThe_Badger, on 2018-September-14, 07:19, said:

The Hideous Hog would be in a Moysian 7 contract on this and would succeed given a few good breaks in the side suits and a finesse, even on a trump lead :)

Isn't the best chance of 7 to ruff a heart in hand, hoping for trumps 3-3 and Q in a 3-card suit or shorter?
So there is someone who is more pedantic than I am. Good to know ;) --- Blackshoe
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#36 User is offline   el mister 

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Posted 2018-September-17, 04:02

View Posthelene_t, on 2018-September-16, 19:25, said:

Isn't the best chance of 7 to ruff a heart in hand, hoping for trumps 3-3 and Q in a 3-card suit or shorter?

On the actual deal the QH was sitting doubleton offside so 7H and 7N make. 7S also makes as the trumps split 2-4, but drawing 4 trumps then crossing to KD and running hearts sounds like the type of line a beginner takes to make, but an expert rejects and fails. I've not read Mollo, but no doubt there is a caricature of this sort of play in his books.
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#37 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-17, 05:07

View Postel mister, on 2018-September-17, 04:02, said:

On the actual deal the QH was sitting doubleton offside so 7H and 7N make. 7S also makes as the trumps split 2-4, but drawing 4 trumps then crossing to KD and running hearts sounds like the type of line a beginner takes to make, but an expert rejects and fails. I've not read Mollo, but no doubt there is a caricature of this sort of play in his books.


What line would your expert then embrace? According to a quick calculation, the beginner line has about 27% chance of success which is slightly better than Helene's line at about 26%.
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#38 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-September-17, 05:45

View Postpescetom, on 2018-September-17, 05:07, said:

What line would your expert then embrace? According to a quick calculation, the beginner line has about 27% chance of success which is slightly better than Helene's line at about 26%.


On a trump lead I win in dummy, then AK pitching diamonds, when Q drops there is no probelm, draw trumps and back to the K, if it doesn't, cash K, play A and ruff one (or take club finesse and ruff one may be even better) draw trumps and hope Q is either triple either side or to 3 or 4 onside depending which line I take.
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#39 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-September-17, 06:06

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-September-17, 05:45, said:

On a trump lead I win in dummy, then AK pitching diamonds, when Q drops there is no probelm, draw trumps and back to the K, if it doesn't, cash K, play A and ruff one (or take club finesse and ruff one may be even better) draw trumps and hope Q is either triple either side or to 3 or 4 onside depending which line I take.


I make that about 59% (assuming Q has to be triple either side if the Q fails to drop) so a huge improvement.
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