[pescetom]

nige1, on 2018-November-05, 16:27, said:

Suppose that players applying for BBO-membership had the option of registering with their real-name, verified in some way. (For example NBO#. Thus, I could give my SBU# or ACBL#, which BBO could check on the appropriate website. The software could check that no other a/c -- past or present -- claimed the same NBO#).

Checking on multiple NBO websites each with their own mechanisms and problems sounds impractical. But maybe there is a single WBF site or file that can verify us all - my NBO license has an international code as well as the NBO#. I understand that national/world class players have a direct WBF# too, which would be more telling than the BBO star mechanism.

[barmar]

BBO membership is not restricted to NBO members, although we occasionally run promotions with NBOs to encourage our users to join (e.g. you can get BB$20 if you join ACBL between now and the start of the NABC Online Individual).

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2018-November-06, 10:11, said:

BBO membership is not restricted to NBO members, although we occasionally run promotions with NBOs to encourage our users to join (e.g. you can get BB$20 if you join ACBL between now and the start of the NABC Online Individual).

Nige's suggestion was not to restrict membership to NBO members, but to identify verified NBO members and allow hosts and tournament organisers to restrict entry to verified players.
Of course if BBO has agreements with a certain NBO there will be other synergies too, e.g. eligibility to earn NBO masterpoints, discipline by NBO, etc.
Makes a lot of sense I think.

[GHSteele]

Why, I wonder, would anyone cheat on BBO? It is a way to play bridge online that approximates playing bridge in real life. If used as a training tool for real life
tournaments cheating would be bad training.

There should not really be ACBL master points awarded except when playing against robots only. Individuals or partners or teams against robots tournaments perhaps. These master points are a motive to cheat at all.

[johnu]

GHSteele, on 2018-November-17, 10:19, said:

Why, I wonder, would anyone cheat on BBO? It is a way to play bridge online that approximates playing bridge in real life.

Really? Where have you been? If there is a sport or activity that is competitive, some people are unable to control themselves from cheating. It doesn't matter that there is nothing at stake in the game. On BBO, a bunch of people cheat every day just playing for fun with absolutely nothing on the line.

[mythdoc]

---

This result was recorded in yesterday’s free robot tournament (day one of two). I myself reached 4H and got a score in the 70’s% for making 12 tricks. I have been playing BBO for about a month after a long hiatus from bridge. I cannot conceive any way to understand this result other than as cheating, using some kind of multiple login approach. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding. Thank you.

[pescetom]

mythdoc, on 2020-January-12, 14:25, said:

This result was recorded in yesterday’s free robot tournament (day one of two). I myself reached 4H and got a score in the 70’s% for making 12 tricks. I have been playing BBO for about a month after a long hiatus from bridge. I cannot conceive any way to understand this result other than as cheating, using some kind of multiple login approach.

No idea how a free robot tournament works, but it does smell bad... 6♥ I could understand.

[mythdoc]

pescetom, on 2020-January-12, 14:35, said:

No idea how a free robot tournament works, but it does smell bad... 6♥ I could understand.

Another contestant opened the bidding with 6H with the South hand. That I can almost get my mind around, not the example above.

[johnu]

mythdoc, on 2020-January-12, 14:52, said:

Another contestant opened the bidding with 6H with the South hand. That I can almost get my mind around, not the example above.

Somebody who routinely bids like that should score in the 20-30% range. For every "success", they should have 4, 5, maybe 10 disasters. If they almost always have successes, I would bet that they are cheating.

[Vampyr]

johnu, on 2020-January-12, 16:14, said:

Somebody who routinely bids like that should score in the 20-30% range. For every "success", they should have 4, 5, maybe 10 disasters. If they almost always have successes, I would bet that they are cheating.

Look, you can be on the phone with your partner. You could be using GIB or another DD engine. There are so many ways to cheat it would be impossible to stamp them all out. Obviously it takes the fun out of the game if people are cheating. Probably best to just play in team games with friends or acquaintances.

[mythdoc]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the free individual tournaments as a way to resharpen my skills. The score I achieve still works as an indication of progress or lack thereof, even if it might be smaller by a marginal degree due to cheaters. Seems odd to cheat when the event is free and nothing is at stake, but ....(shrug).

[barmar]

Vampyr, on 2020-January-12, 16:32, said:

Look, you can be on the phone with your partner.

We don't let the BBO robots use phones.

The daylong robot tournaments are designed to make cheating difficult. Everyone plays different combinations of boards, so finding a cohort who has played the same boards as you did should be extremely unlikely. However, if there were a conspiracy of a dozen or so players, I suppose they could get a line on a few boards.

We take even more extreme measures for the NABC Online Invidividual tournaments -- we make sure that you don't play the same boards as anyone you've partnered with in online or f2f ACBL tournaments.

[mythdoc]

barmar, on 2020-January-12, 23:26, said:

We don't let the BBO robots use phones.

The daylong robot tournaments are designed to make cheating difficult. Everyone plays different combinations of boards, so finding a cohort who has played the same boards as you did should be extremely unlikely. However, if there were a conspiracy of a dozen or so players, I suppose they could get a line on a few boards.

We take even more extreme measures for the NABC Online Invidividual tournaments -- we make sure that you don't play the same boards as anyone you've partnered with in online or f2f ACBL tournaments.

Good to hear. I’m supposing that in a rated online tournament like the NABC, the results are also subject to a stricter review process in case of obvious irregularities, than is warranted for a free daylong robot tournament. Thank you for the reply.

[gwnn]

0 carbon, on 2018-November-04, 13:00, said:

Cheats using 2 IDs would have to pay 2x as much.But a pair of cheats using Skype/phone/... would be less affected.

Also if cheats were detected and banned, then they'd be less likely to create a new username and start cheating again if that cost money.

[mythdoc]

Allow me to speculate for a moment. I think this wouldn’t be too terribly hard to pull off.

This particular event, the daylong individual robot tourney, would seem to require something on the order of 5-10 or so “worker” accounts harvesting deals in service of one or two “queens.” All these accounts could be at one physical location, using VPN to mask this, or there could be a group sharing harvested deals (via the internet) with each other. A screen shot of the full deal is all that is required, and this is available for a second or two at the end of every hand. (The worker accounts do not even have to have humans playing, they can be bots. They just need to take the screen shot.) The queen account, playing alongside but slightly behind the worker accounts, needs only to consult the crop of screenshots to find a match for the current hand. Some of the fantastical bidding, of which the most egregious example is shown above, is the most suspicious aspect.

Over 8, 10, or even 20 hands (two day tournament) a score of 80% is not in itself suspicious, but when one looks at certain of the top scorers of the recent events, these scores combined with bidding oddities suggest the possibility of cheating. Who with 15HCP would not open their 5 card spade suit (or 1NT) to instead open 1♦ with only 3? You might if you knew in advance what the other hands look like. These are bids that, without cheating, should result in plenty of bottoms along with the occasional odd top score, but instead one sees 16 tops out of 20 hands played.

Again, free is you get what you pay for. A similar tournament with a rating would, I hope and assume, be subject to a higher level of monitoring and review. Screening to avoid allowing previous computer partners to get similar hands won’t do much when new accounts may be easily set up and put into immediate use.

[mycroft]

I'm really, really willing to give away my free bridge results - especially without a rating system - to the cheaters.

I don't even mind playing against them, until I figure it out.

I also frequently play bridge on BBO - shall we say "less seriously"? - than I do IRL. I'm sure the "need-a-solution" players are just as happy with my chemically-induced results fouling their precious brilliancies from being tops as the ones the straight cheaters give them.

Compared to the 7NT flouncers, the "clm" dummies, the free lessons players, the EEEEEEEeeeexperts, the people whose expressions of incredulity are bewildering??? or overpowering!!!, the attitude given to players playing *anything* non-standard, or all the other reasons I only play with and against people I know or people those people know, cheating is really low on my priority list. And BBO does a good job (not a great one, but really actually good) investigating and cleaning them out. And I bet they do a lot more than you or I think about - and certainly more than they're telling us they do.

[mythdoc]

^^I agree with quite a lot of what you just expressed, thanks. When I couldn’t continue playing IRL tournaments due to insomnia I lost my (great) pard and stepped away from the game for a v long time. Finally retired and have more time, and BBO has been a godsend. I can enjoy the card play, play when I like (by myself or with my son), and be stress free. The spirit of curiosity spurred me to post and I enjoyed chewing it over in my mind for a time, but am ready to go back to just having fun now, lol.