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What happened to Rudy Giuliani?

#1 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-August-12, 21:26

Rudy Giuliani used to be a reasonable person. As Mayor of NYC he reduced crime and cleaned up Time Square. He was a moderate Republican who was pro-choice and for same-sex civil unions. In the aftermath of 9/11 he brought the city together. And when he ran for President in 2007 his favorability ratings were in the 60'sand 70's. And before he was Mayor, he was a successful US Attorney who fought the Mafia and corporate corruption.

Now he's Trump's mouthpiece, and every day spouts legal nonsense. How does this happen to a person?

#2 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-August-12, 21:43

The best summary of Rudy Giuliani was this quip that has been going around for years "The most dangerous place in New York is between Rudy Giuliani and a hot mic".

Rudy Giuliani - A closer look at the 9/11 legend
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#3 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-August-13, 01:27

View Postbarmar, on 2018-August-12, 21:26, said:

How does this happen to a person?


Guiliani was always unhinged, however, his age is clearly showing.

Please recall, this is the mayor who tried to violate NYC's term limit laws claiming that he was indispensable.
He routinely violated the civil rights of NYC residents.
He used a pressed conference to announce that he was divorcing his second wife.
His later political campaigns were a joke.

Balanced against this, the man had two great weeks immediately after 911 and he waged a brutal war to keep us safe from ferrets.
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#4 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-August-13, 06:37

Guiliani is a lawyer working for a client. I am not so sure he is doing a good job pf that either, but I suppose that is how he should be judged. It is, I guess, tricky.John Bolton was interviewed a while back on PBS and they asked about things he had written that were in direct opposition to positions he now advocates. He said something like "I'm really pleased you guys are taking the time to read what I have written, but now I work for President Trump". I guess I can understand that, sort of. But back to RG. Everyone is entitled to a lawyer, and the rules require the lawyer to put his client's interests first. Technically that probably only applies in the courtroom but in a situation such as this surely the public arena is something of a courtroom. Impeachment, for example, is not exactly a criminal trial.

I am not at all defending Guiliani, he and Sarah Sanders have reached a position where nothing that they say should be given an ounce of credibility. Working for Trump is a very self-destructive act. But if we are trying to understand, I think the fact that he is a lawyer representing a client has to be part of the explanation. Is he doing a good job? I don't see it that way, but it's a tough assignment.

If the glove don't fit you must acquit. That worked.
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#5 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-August-13, 14:20

Hmmmnñ, media (attention/publicity/notoriety/celebrity) whore comes to mind when I see RG. 9-11 was a game-changer for a lot of Operation Northwoodsian and Gladio type activity. Just ask Silverstein or anyone whose insurance premiums rose therafter. Multi-billion $ claims and subsequent wealth tranfers are all part of the fleecing operation....
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#6 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-August-14, 10:19

View Postjohnu, on 2018-August-12, 21:43, said:

The best summary of Rudy Giuliani was this quip that has been going around for years "The most dangerous place in New York is between Rudy Giuliani and a hot mic".

Rudy Giuliani - A closer look at the 9/11 legend

Do you really want to cite a 9/11 conspiracy theory website?

Although the article actually originated at a site called Washington's Blog. I can't quite figure out what their slant is.

#7 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-August-14, 10:22

View PostAl_U_Card, on 2018-August-13, 14:20, said:

Hmmmnñ, media (attention/publicity/notoriety/celebrity) whore comes to mind when I see RG.

He's been a media whore for years. I just don't remember him being as inept as this before.

It might just be that there's no way to spin Trump's idiocy without sounding like an idiot yourself.

#8 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-August-14, 10:45

View Postbarmar, on 2018-August-14, 10:22, said:

He's been a media whore for years. I just don't remember him being as inept as this before.

It might just be that there's no way to spin Trump's idiocy without sounding like an idiot yourself.


I have been thinking on this, figuring maybe I could join the team. Here is what I believe would be universally acknowledged to be a clear and accurate position for Trump:

"My lawyers have advised me that it would be inappropriate to meet with Mueller before I have made my tax returns public. I am happy to assure everyone that as soon as I get my tax records out there, I will schedule a meeting with Mueller. Any reasonable person can understand the need to do things in this proper order."
I'll be sending in my resume soon to apply for a position. Right after I release my tax records.

We septuagenarians must stick together.

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#9 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-August-14, 13:35

View Postbarmar, on 2018-August-14, 10:22, said:

He's been a media whore for years. I just don't remember him being as inept as this before.

It might just be that there's no way to spin Trump's idiocy without sounding like an idiot yourself.

Seems to me that most previous Presidents were less "forthcoming" than Trump and when they goofed, they hunkered down and let the spin-meisters handle the flak. Trump likes to double-down and press at every occasion. Too much for most press-secretaries/advisors. RG was getting lonely at home, I guess... ;)
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#10 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-August-14, 19:58

View Postbarmar, on 2018-August-14, 10:19, said:

Do you really want to cite a 9/11 conspiracy theory website?

Although the article actually originated at a site called Washington's Blog. I can't quite figure out what their slant is.


Mostly a rehash of other widely available and reliable sources. But for other sources:

Giuliani Claims U.S. Had No Terrorist Attacks Pre-Obama

For those saying Giuliani has reduced mental capacity, how would you explain forgetting 9/11 and the 1993 World Trade Center bombings, especially if you are a New Yorker?

Rudy Giuliani during the September 11 attacks
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#11 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-August-19, 23:00

Rudy Giuliani Stuns NBC’s Chuck Todd: ‘Truth Isn’t Truth’

You can make this stuff up, but who would believe you.
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#12 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-August-20, 01:55

View Postjohnu, on 2018-August-19, 23:00, said:

Rudy Giuliani Stuns NBC’s Chuck Todd: ‘Truth Isn’t Truth’

You can make this stuff up, but who would believe you.


This is just a distraction from the Rudy's real f$ck up...

Tring to claim that the Trump power meeting wasn't about getting dirty from the Russians when the orange shiite gibbon's own son has leaked emails contradicting this.
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#13 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-August-20, 07:57

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-August-20, 01:55, said:

This is just a distraction from the Rudy's real f$ck up...

Tring to claim that the Trump power meeting wasn't about getting dirty from the Russians when the orange shiite gibbon's own son has leaked emails contradicting this.

They're not refuting that they were trying to get dirt on Hillary any more, they're just claiming it's not collusion or illegal. And somehow that Donald wasn't in on it.

#14 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-August-20, 10:18

View Postbarmar, on 2018-August-20, 07:57, said:

They're not refuting that they were trying to get dirt on Hillary any more, they're just claiming it's not collusion or illegal.


Rudy disputed this yesterday AM
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#15 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2018-August-20, 13:42

View Postbarmar, on 2018-August-20, 07:57, said:

They're not refuting that they were trying to get dirt on Hillary any more, they're just claiming it's not collusion or illegal. And somehow that Donald wasn't in on it.


As far as the illegal part I can see them claiming that as political neophytes it was only incompetence and they are doing everything to give that the ring of truth. Maybe if it's impeachable but not criminal Trump et al get to keep their ill booten gotti.
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#16 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-August-20, 14:38

View Postggwhiz, on 2018-August-20, 13:42, said:

As far as the illegal part I can see them claiming that as political neophytes it was only incompetence and they are doing everything to give that the ring of truth. Maybe if it's impeachable but not criminal Trump et al get to keep their ill booten gotti.


That excuse is a non-starter. The campaign was specifically warned by the FBI that it would probably be approached by Russia and that if it happened they should contact the FBI. Also, Manafort was not a neophyte, and he was in the meeting with the Russians.
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#17 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2018-August-20, 21:10

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-August-20, 14:38, said:

That excuse is a non-starter. The campaign was specifically warned by the FBI that it would probably be approached by Russia and that if it happened they should contact the FBI. Also, Manafort was not a neophyte, and he was in the meeting with the Russians.


I never claimed it made sense but it seems like the max that they could possibly get away with and the bottom line they are aiming for at this point. Their house of cards is crumbling.
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#18 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-August-21, 08:41

View Postggwhiz, on 2018-August-20, 21:10, said:

I never claimed it made sense but it seems like the max that they could possibly get away with and the bottom line they are aiming for at this point. Their house of cards is crumbling.

None of what they've been saying makes sense. Every time something new is revealed, they change their story. They've just been attempting legal rope-a-dope, trying to obfuscate and spin at the same time.

#19 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-August-21, 09:11

Marcy Wheeler at Emptywheel breaks down the Giuliani BS:

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THE STAKES OF DISSOCIATING THE JUNE 9 MEETING FROM ANY SANCTIONS RELIEF
By this point, Rudy’s credibility is so shot that when he makes a claim, we should assume that it (like any claim his client makes) is suspect, if not an outright lie.

As I noted above, whether or not there was follow-up on the June 9 meeting doesn’t really change whether Don Jr gleefully accepted a meeting expecting dirt from the Russian government on Hillary Clinton. He did. But in Rudy’s dodgy explanations for why the June 9 meeting isn’t criminal, he relies heavily on his claim — a claim that the Trump side has maintained since a week before Rhona Graff found the email that proved it wasn’t true — that there was no follow-up on the meeting.

But there was.

At a minimum, there were several weeks of follow-up on the Russian side, understandably trying to hold Don Jr to (what they remember as) his offer to revisit the issue of sanctions after the election. As part of that follow-up, there are hints that Don Jr was in the loop, even if both he and Goldstone can’t remember that happening.

The follow-up led by the Agalarovs was, as far as the public record indicates, inconclusive. The Agalarovs lost their communication channel (perhaps as Don Jr got sidelined), and so never did get their follow-up meeting.

But on the same day Trump’s long-time handler, Aras Agalarov, said he’d seek out a new channel of communications, Jared Kushner and Mike Flynn were sitting in Don Jr’s office, attempting to establish a back channel of communication, and solidifying a relationship that would, less than a month later, involve yet another overt act regarding sanctions relief. And that overt act — persuading Sergey Kislyak to defer any response to Obama’s new sanctions — was closely directed from Mar-a-Lago.

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#20 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-August-22, 14:37

Every time I hear a Giuliani excuse for the president dodging an interview, I hear Frances McDormand in Fargo:

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Oh for pete's sake, he's fleeing the interview! He's fleeing the interview!

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