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Meckwell 1C-1D-1M-2C What's forcing/game-forcing now?

#1 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2018-July-20, 06:09

What continuations are 1RF/nf/GF after 1C-1D-1H-2C and 1C-1D-1S-2C and what should 2D be?

One source I have says 2D is a shape enquiry, minimum, but that after 1C-1D-1S-2C, 2H is also natural, minimum. That doesn't make much sense to me. The other source has 2H natural GF.

They both have 3m defined as 46. What then with 4M531 shapes GF? I'm guessing it's 2NT, but that seems like a way to play it wrong-sided. Or does that hand go through 2D?
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#2 User is offline   spotlight7 

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Posted 2018-July-20, 11:27

View Postwank, on 2018-July-20, 06:09, said:

What continuations are 1RF/nf/GF after 1C-1D-1H-2C and 1C-1D-1S-2C and what should 2D be, natural?



One CC lists 1C-1D-1M-2C-2D* as art. weak.

This appears unplayable since they rebid 1M with 4M

and longer minor type hands as well as 4441 types.


I play 1C-1D-1M-2C-2D as natural.

Since 1C-1D-1M is some kind of unbalanced hand, ...-2C-2N* is available to show clubs.


The Hackett brothers use 1M-2D-2NT* is a club canapť hand.

Responder bids 3C if not GF and opener passes with a min. hand or bids higher with GF values


1H-2D-3C*(or 1S-2red-3C*) shows a strong NT opener GF.
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#3 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2018-July-21, 14:30

Itís weak and denies certain minimum major holdings. For example it denies a minimum hand with a 6-card major and it denies 5S/4H,

The bid allows responder to show 2-cd support for openerís major (opener will remove if only a 4-2 fit) or show a suit or suggest 2N.

1C-1D, 1M-2D shows 3-cd support and 6-7 hcps.

Lots of variations and I donít know exactly what they are playing now.

For example, does 1C-1D, 1M-2C, 2D-2OM show that other major, both minors or something else?
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#4 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2018-July-23, 18:36

View Postwank, on 2018-July-20, 06:09, said:

One source I have says 2D is a shape enquiry, minimum, but that after 1C-1D-1S-2C, 2H is also natural, minimum. That doesn't make much sense to me. The other source has 2H natural GF.


Perhaps responder only bids a five card heart suit after the shape inquiry, since opener could have bid 2H if holding 5-4? It could also be that case that opener with GF values have to bid something else than 2H, since that seems to be non-forcing. Thus with 5S and 4H and say 18+, opener rebids 2D?
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#5 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2018-July-23, 22:24

View PostKungsgeten, on 2018-July-23, 18:36, said:

Perhaps responder only bids a five card heart suit after the shape inquiry, since opener could have bid 2H if holding 5-4? It could also be that case that opener with GF values have to bid something else than 2H, since that seems to be non-forcing. Thus with 5S and 4H and say 18+, opener rebids 2D?

no, because 1C-1D-1S-2H is supposed to show 6-7 with 5 hearts, so that can't be in 2C.
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#6 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2018-July-24, 07:30

I seem to remember 1C-1D, 1S-2H shows 3S/5H and 6-7. In any case, they used a lot of bids like 1C-1D, 1M-3m to show 3M/6m and 6-7.

Anyway, we've discussed their continuations several times and I don't think anyone ever had recent notes. Here's something I came up with, partly tweaking and partly filling in holes. I don't remember if I liked it much.

View Poststraube, on 2014-February-01, 11:51, said:

1H-natural
.....1S-natural, 0-7, denies 4 hearts, denies 3 hearts with 5-7
..........2L-natural
...............2S-6S, 0-4
...............2N-GI (up to 5 spades)
..........2N-invitational
.....1N-0-4, denies 4 hearts or 4 spades
.....2C-5-7 and 0-2 heart
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-2-fit
...............2S-6 spades
...............2N-short hearts
...............3m-6m
..........2H-6 heart
...............2S-6 spades
..........2S-4S/5H, GF
..........2N-GF (could have rebiddable hearts)
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GI
......2D-5-7 and exactly 3 hearts
..........2H-weak
...............2S-4S/3H (mandatory because opener could be exactly 4/4 in the majors)
...............2N-both minors, short spades
...............3m-6m
..........2S-GF
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GF
.....2H-0-4, 4 hearts
.....2S-5-7, 3H/5S
.....2N-5-7, 4H bal
.....3C-5-7, 4H short clubs
.....3D-5-7, 4H short diamonds
.....3H-5-7, 4H short spades
.....3S-6S/3H


Then after 1C-1D...

1S-
.....1N-0-4, denies 4 spades
.....2C-5-7, denies 3 spades
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-5 hearts
...............2S-2 spades
..........2H-5S/4H, forcing
..........2S-6S
..........2N-GF (could have rebiddable spades)
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GF, 5/5
..........3S-GI
.....2D-5-7, 3 spades, could have 5 hearts
..........2H-artificial invite
...............2S-weak
..........2S-weak
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GF
..........3S-GF
.....2H-5-7, 6H
.....2S-0-4, 4+ spades
.....2N-5-7, 4+ spades, bal
.....3C-5-7, 4+ spades, short clubs
.....3D-5-7, 4+ spades, short diamonds
.....3H-5-7, 3S/6H
.....3S-5-7, 4+ spades, short hearts
.....3N-?
.....4m-?
.....4H-3S/7H

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#7 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2018-July-24, 08:10

Iíd go with basically the inverse of what Straube had:

2M = 6-suit minimum so responder can pass with 0-1M
3m = 5+m and 4M min, NF but responder can bid on
2H after 1S = Natural F1
2S after 1H = 44(41) minimum, NF
2nt = 1444/4144 short other major,F1 since always a minor fit
3M = sets suit requires cuebid
3H after 1S = 5/5 GF (2H..3H is 5/5 min)

2D = either min with 5M (not 5S/4H) or most maximums
... 2M doubleton, if opener bids on natural GF
... 2OM/2NT = short openers major, 2OM shows 5C or 1444 and 2nt shows 5D
... 3m = 6-suit

Note that responders 2C denies 3+M and also denies 4S (if opener has hearts) or 5H (if opener has spades). So it will either be balanced with 2M or 1444 or have a 5+minor.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#8 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2018-July-24, 14:18

25 year old Meckwell notes...

1C-1D
1H-2S=5S/3H and 5-7
...3S=6S/3H and 5-7

1C-1D
1H-2D
2H-2S-nf 4S/3H

1C-1D
1H-2D
2S-3S-2S is an artificial ask, 3S shows 4S/3H

1C-1D
1S-2D
2H-3H-2H is an artificial ask or 2S sign off. 3H shows 5H/3S

1C-1D
1H-2C-less than 3-fit, may have long m
2D-weak relay, artificial (could be GI in H (follow with 3H) or in NT (follow with 2N)
2H-minimum, 6H
2S-GF, reverse
2N-GF, some hand without a 5-cd minor
3m-GF, 5+ cards in the m
3H-suit set

1C-1D
1H-2C
2D-2H-doubleton H
...2S-short in H
...2N-short in H but positional for NT
...3m-6+m, not necessarily short in H

1C-1D
1H-2C
2N-3m-cheapest 4m
...3H-doublton H
...3S-Stucktape (whatever that is)

1C-1D
1H-2D 5-7, 3-fit
2H-sign off attempt
.....2S-4S/3H 6-7, nf
.....2N-minors
.....3C-6m, nf
2S-size asking
2N,3m like after 2C
3H-invite

1C-1D
1H-2D
2N-3m
3H-slam interest, sets trump
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#9 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2018-July-24, 14:48

i think that 1C-1D, 1S-2H as 5-7, 5+H and 0-2S is too preemptive. It prevents opener from having a weak (2D) and strong (2N) relay. Presumably 1C-1D, 1S-2H, 2N is just misfitting. It also prevents opener from strongly and weakly suggesting a 6-cd minor.

I like 1C-1D, 1S-2H as 5-7 and 6H

1C-1D, 1S-2C
...............2D-weak relay
....................2H-5H
.........................2S-0-1H, 5S
....................2S-2S
...............2H-4H, f
...............2S-6S, nf
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