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What Happens Next?

#1 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-July-19, 10:11

http://neapolitanclu...ed-by-figb.html

This has echoes of what happened in Buenos Aires in 1965.

http://www.shenkinbr...px?articleID=94

I know how I felt about the scandal in 1965, not least as I corresponded with the late Alan Truscott, the British-American bridge player and bridge correspondent of The New York Times. At the time I was considering writing a screenplay.

Given that I believe in free speech and democracy, what does this latest acquittal say about the bridge world generally? Back in 1965 there was no video evidence as there is today, but the evidence accrued by the American team back in 1965 was concrete proof, in my opinion, that something was untoward.

And how exactly will the bridge world respond if Fantoni and Nunes are allowed to carry on playing bridge? Players refusing to play against them? I also believe in innocence before being proved guilty, but this acquittal has undermined all the hard work by bridge players the world over to rid the game of players that on the balance of probability have used illegal methods to convey information.
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#2 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-July-20, 07:44

Even though the court cleared them, the bridge community knows what's up. OJ was also found not guilty, but everyone knows he did it -- the prosecution just didn't meet the burden of proof required in a criminal trial.

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#3 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2018-July-20, 12:48

I didn't read the whole thing but if the forfeiture of masterpoints holds they can go back to being flight B pros.

I can't see them doing much better than that since the flight A sentiment is definitely revulsion.
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#4 User is offline   dokoko 

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Posted 2018-July-20, 12:48

I haven't studied the verdict in this case in detail.

I did, however, study the arguments given by the court that cancelled the ban of the "German doctors".

In short the court argued that the procedure that led to the ban had been faulty. Therefore it was immaterial whether the players were guilty (the court guessed they were), because without proper procedure the ban couldn't stand.

The WBF, who was first to ban the players, by it's own regulations had no right to ban them as they were no members (only the national federations are).

The committee established by the DBV (German bridge federation) investigated the available evidence. This committee found the doctors guilty of cheating (by proper procedure) but then erred when it took over the WBF's ban without adressing the question whether the penalty was adequate.

It has often been said that courts and judges know too little about bridge to understand cheating matters. In the German case, the truth is that bridge players know too little about jurisdiction (or forget about their knowledge when bridge is concerned) - even though many of them are lawyers themselves (at least in Germany).

What we - especially the people in charge - should learn from such verdicts is that we should procede carefully and follow proper procedure when confronted with cheating, because otherwise it will be the cheaters who win.
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#5 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2018-July-21, 04:51

View PostThe_Badger, on 2018-July-19, 10:11, said:

http://neapolitanclu...ed-by-figb.html

This has echoes of what happened in Buenos Aires in 1965.

http://www.shenkinbr...px?articleID=94

I know how I felt about the scandal in 1965, not least as I corresponded with the late Alan Truscott, the British-American bridge player and bridge correspondent of The New York Times. At the time I was considering writing a screenplay.

Given that I believe in free speech and democracy, what does this latest acquittal say about the bridge world generally? Back in 1965 there was no video evidence as there is today, but the evidence accrued by the American team back in 1965 was concrete proof, in my opinion, that something was untoward.

And how exactly will the bridge world respond if Fantoni and Nunes are allowed to carry on playing bridge? Players refusing to play against them? I also believe in innocence before being proved guilty, but this acquittal has undermined all the hard work by bridge players the world over to rid the game of players that on the balance of probability have used illegal methods to convey information.

While I understand the dissatisfaction with the Fantoni / Nunes case I see little similarity with the case in Buenos Aires.
Yes I know Alan Truscott was convinced Reese / Shapiro cheated, but I do not think Truscott was unbiased.

It's like claiming because Person X was guilty of murder Person Y in an unrelated case must also be.
Obvious nonsense.

The cases have little in common and top Bridge players from ACBL country are not the supreme court in Bridge with the final decision to decide, who did cheat and who did not.
I know some bridge players from the US find this hard to accept.

Rainer Herrmann
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#6 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2018-July-21, 08:02

View Postrhm, on 2018-July-21, 04:51, said:

While I understand the dissatisfaction with the Fantoni / Nunes case I see little similarity with the case in Buenos Aires.
Yes I know Alan Truscott was convinced Reese / Shapiro cheated, but I do not think Truscott was unbiased.

It's like claiming because Person X was guilty of murder Person Y in an unrelated case must also be.
Obvious nonsense.

The cases have little in common and top Bridge players from ACBL country are not the supreme court in Bridge with the final decision to decide, who did cheat and who did not.
I know some bridge players from the US find this hard to accept.

Rainer Herrmann


I respect what you have to say, Rainer. As you rightly say, there are differences between the allegations against Reese/Shapiro and Fantoni/Nunes. I have also heard from another (now deceased) player who shares your view that Truscott was slightly biased. His view was as Truscott wasn't part of the British team, it was Truscott's own way of getting his own back by proving that Reese/Shapiro cheated. However, Truscott had moved to New York the year before.

However, there is the obvious similarity that both sets of allegations have been levelled against the world's top bridge players of this and that era, and have fizzled out because actually proving these allegations is more difficult than it seems.

If the bridge world generally cannot respond adequately to these incidences of alleged cheating, what does the future hold for when it happens again, as invariably it will do.
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