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interesting hand

#1 User is offline   cencio 

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Posted 2018-July-04, 12:19


Try to play this 4 spade, better by hiding the e w hands and using a card play software
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#2 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-July-04, 13:03

View Postcencio, on 2018-July-04, 12:19, said:


Try to play this 4 spade, better by hiding the e w hands and using a card play software


What was the lead?
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#3 User is offline   cencio 

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Posted 2018-July-04, 13:06

View PostTramticket, on 2018-July-04, 13:03, said:

What was the lead?

Q
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#4 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2018-July-04, 21:11

Without playing the hand through in all its variations, the danger here is to try to draw trumps before setting up a potential and crossruff. There is a common theme here where you have eight trumps between the two hands headed by the AK and you know that the opponents will have a master trump after drawing two rounds, of playing off winners in side suits while the master trump is still outstanding.

On this hand, I believe it doesn't work as West will gain the lead at some point and then take out two crossruff tricks with the master trump. If you run the suit, instead of trumping West discards a while you discard a . You then play a to the Q, West takes his/her A and plays the master trump and you lose the potential crossruff.

The correct technique - I hope I am right here, please advise if I am wrong as I am far from expert level - is to tackle s first by leading the Q at trick two. That allows you to discard the other on North's fourth after drawing two rounds of trumps.
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#5 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-July-05, 01:07

View PostFelicityR, on 2018-July-04, 21:11, said:

Without playing the hand through in all its variations, the danger here is to try to draw trumps before setting up a potential and crossruff. There is a common theme here where you have eight trumps between the two hands headed by the AK and you know that the opponents will have a master trump after drawing two rounds, of playing off winners in side suits while the master trump is still outstanding.

On this hand, I believe it doesn't work as West will gain the lead at some point and then take out two crossruff tricks with the master trump. If you run the suit, instead of trumping West discards a while you discard a . You then play a to the Q, West takes his/her A and plays the master trump and you lose the potential crossruff.

The correct technique - I hope I am right here, please advise if I am wrong as I am far from expert level - is to tackle s first by leading the Q at trick two. That allows you to discard the other on North's fourth after drawing two rounds of trumps.


Yes, agree with this. Duck two hearts before drawing trumps. The lead is hamless, so you are unlikely to suffer a ruff before you set up your ruffs. Having ducked the hearts, you simply draw two rounds of trumps then play the diamonds before cross-ruffing the hearts and clubs. The opps are welcome to ruff in at any time, but this will be their last trick.
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-July-05, 04:21

View PostTramticket, on 2018-July-05, 01:07, said:

Yes, agree with this. Duck two hearts before drawing trumps. The lead is hamless, so you are unlikely to suffer a ruff before you set up your ruffs. Having ducked the hearts, you simply draw two rounds of trumps then play the diamonds before cross-ruffing the hearts and clubs. The opps are welcome to ruff in at any time, but this will be their last trick.


This works but you also have to avoid the hidden danger if you mistime it slightly that they either engineer 2 diamond ruffs or play a third round of trumps, you also have to make sure you can take your second and third club ruffs without them being able to cash the 4th one. There are several ways of going off in this with only minor mistiming.
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#7 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2018-July-08, 16:54

Cyber's point is well taken.

I think repeated returns might beat the contract if you play on

Win A East signals 8
out A or J wins
Low return, ruff 5, K discarded
out, A or J wins
J return, 6 ruff

Now you can't take 2 top and run , else West ruffs the 3rd and cashes a winner.
If you try to run without drawing trumps at this point, West ruffs the 3rd round and feeds you a fourth winning forcing you to lose it or ruff with a spade honor and set up a second trick for West.


I think the only thing that works is to arrange to win the 3rd in hand before ruffing a 3rd round of .

Win A
Low to the 9
Ruff the second round of
Cash the 2 high
Cash a high
Overtake J with the Q

If it's ruffed, they can cash 2 high , but no more.
If West pitches, you can ruff a 3rd round of and pitch a loser on the remaining high .
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#8 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2018-July-08, 20:45

There are multiple ways to make the hand, and several ways to go wrong.
Best is to play a heart at trick two IMO. If they take two hearts it's pretty trivial, you just play off two high trumps then diamond winners then crossruff. If they play a club back (or anything else for that matter), then you *don't* bother to play a 2nd heart. Just play 2 high trumps then the diamonds. West either ruffs in, and cashes a heart, but that's it, you ruff 1 club and discard the other on the long diamond, or West doesn't ruff in, which lets you pitch your losing heart instead and you lose a club, heart, and trump. If they tap you in clubs and try to play a 2nd heart you go down as rmnka447 outlined.

An alternate (inferior) line, which happens makes on the lie of the cards, but is worse when East has doubleton club 3 spades, is to ruff a club, draw two top trumps, then play 3 diamonds being sure to (try to) win 3rd diamond in hand w/ the DQ. This lets you, if West refuses to ruff, ruff a third club and discard the 4th on the 4th diamond, losing 2 hearts and a spade. But duck one H is way better. The main danger of play of hearts is west being 22 in majors with one spade honor, then lose 2 hearts, heart overruff, and long spade to East. Can't cater to everything.
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#9 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-July-08, 23:34

View PostFelicityR, on 2018-July-04, 21:11, said:

The correct technique - I hope I am right here, please advise if I am wrong as I am far from expert level - is to tackle s first by leading the Q at trick two. That allows you to discard the other on North's fourth after drawing two rounds of trumps.


View PostStephen Tu, on 2018-July-08, 20:45, said:

If they play a club back (or anything else for that matter), then you *don't* bother to play a 2nd heart. Just play 2 high trumps then the diamonds.


There's a big blindspot for those who want to play 2 rounds of hearts. This is completely unnecessary as you can eventually pitch the 2nd heart (or the 4th club) on a diamond winner after an opponent ruffs in with the master trump.
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