[wbartley]

Just play bridge robot. Human South.

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What is to be gained by responding with the North hand here? South has a good 16 count and 1♥ is the limit of this hand. What are the odds that you miss game by not responding here?

[cherdano]

wbartley, on 2018-March-23, 18:27, said:

What is to be gained by responding with the North hand here?

A lot. Passing is losing bridge.

[virgosrock]

wbartley, on 2018-March-23, 18:27, said:

Just play bridge robot. Human South.

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What is to be gained by responding with the North hand here? South has a good 16 count and 1♥ is the limit of this hand. What are the odds that you miss game by not responding here?

With a two suiter GIB is apt to do this. I think I have seen 6-4 as well.

vrock

[gwnn]

I knew I would be on GIB's side on this one before I saw the hand. I was not wrong.

[eagles123]

lol we could easily have 4 spades on, on a real lucky day heck we might have 6 spades

[wbartley]

I see a lot of certainty here. That's fine but my question is whether on average you lose more by missing game in those instances where it makes than you do by getting too high. You can't just say, "If I pass we might miss game." If I miss a non-vulnerable game 1 time out of 20 and score 170 when I could have made 420 but I get too high 5 times out of 20 and score -50 when I could have scored 110, I come out ahead in the long run by passing. Yes, we could miss a slam, but how often is there going to be slam opposite a 1 bid with this hand. Maybe one hand in a hundred? And how many of those hands will you actually bid the slam? I'd be willing to bet that if bidding has an advantage over passing here it's a small one. When you're dealing with anecdotal evidence, we tend to give more weight to situations where there was a bigger swing. So, maybe you passed with this hand once upon a time and you missed game but what happens is that you give that instance too much weight in subsequent decision making. There's also a lot of group think going on. You get -50 and -100 a lot but then your opponents who also think that passing is losing bridge are getting -50 and -100 so you never get to experience the joy of the 200 point swing.

[Stephen Tu]

It's not only missing game. You can also tend to win by:
- finding and making a spade partial
- finding clubs if partner has 4+ clubs

Even if you go down in whatever, you can still win if it's a good sacrifice against what they can make, which is easier for them to find if you pass rather than bid. Defense is tough, sometimes they let you make when should go down, or down 1 when should down 2. NV -50/-100 is often going to beat letting them go +90/+110/+120 by passing. Sometimes you even talk them out of a vul game.

Here the opponents can make 2d or 1nt. Will they find the balance if North passes? Maybe not, it would be an easier balance if the E/W were swapped, so this particular layout is a hand where passing might win. But bidding is better on average. Shape and NV = bid a lot. Flat and vul is the time to pass.

[jdonn]

If there is one area where GIB will never please everyone it's with responding to opening bids on hands with fewer than 6 HCP. I have found the views of users are so entrenched on this topic in both directions that we might as well be discussing religion instead of responses to opening bids.

[virgosrock]

jdonn, on 2018-March-26, 09:22, said:

If there is one area where GIB will never please everyone it's with responding to opening bids on hands with fewer than 6 HCP. I have found the views of users are so entrenched on this topic in both directions that we might as well be discussing religion instead of responses to opening bids.

Or Politics LOL

vrock

[steve2005]

eagles123, on 2018-March-24, 07:56, said:

lol we could easily have 4 spades on, on a real lucky day heck we might have 6 spades

If you are making 4♠ i bet Gib puts you in 6 if you respond on 3 hcp.