[Chamaco]

♠Qxx
♥x
♦AQJx
♣AKQxx

Matchpoints, all vulnerable
RHO deals and opens 2S, a weak 2.

What do you bid ?

You have to make your choice assuming the following listed agreements (if you do not like some or all these agreements, please respond under the given conditions, then I will happy to hear suggestions about improved agreements)

Thanks a lot !!

1- 4m is leaping michaels
2- 2NT is natural, 16-19
3- 3m is Nonforcing
4- 3S is stop ask, may prelude to slam investigation with HUGE hand (say, 3 losers or less)
5- If you double and RHO passes, 2NT by pard is Lebensohl, puppet to 3C either with
.....a. weak hand in pass/correct, or
.....b. some gameforcing hand types with a stopper
6- If you double and RHO passes, 3 of a suit by pard is natural invitational
7- If you double, pard with 4-5 hearts and GF hand, will tend to jump to 4H

[Fluffy]

You forget to put the most important agreement, wich of these is the minimum to bid 3♣:

♠Axx
♥x
♦Hxx
♣AQJxxx

What Honnor do you need in ♦ to bid 3♣?

[mike777]

3C

Going out on a limb and bidding my longest and strongest suit over a preempt.

[pbleighton]

3C.

Peter

[Chamaco]

Fluffy, on May 1 2005, 12:20 PM, said:

You forget to put the most important agreement, wich of these is the minimum to bid 3♣:

♠Axx
♥x
♦Hxx
♣AQJxxx

What Honnor do you need in ♦ to bid 3♣?

Gonzalo,
the main agreement is that pard with 0-7 hcp is allowed to pass a nonforcing bid.

with your example hand I think I'd bid a minimum 3C with:
♦Qxx

[hrothgar]

2NT - Describes range and (hopefully) rightsides the contract.
If partner has 6 hearts, 4♥ if likely to be our best contract.

Note, I won't be able to describe shape here even if I start with 3♣

[Free]

I'll probably bid 2NT, but 3♣ is very close...

[whereagles]

I think I guess 3C.

This hand is a good reason to play 2M-3M as a strong 54 in the minors. That seems more useful than as stopper ask.

[Fluffy]

your overcalls are a bit light to waht I am used, I will stick to 2NT then.

[beatrix45]

I'm not gonna pass. I'm not gonna double at this level with a stiff heart. I'm not about to bid 2NT when percentages say there are nine or ten hearts lurking in the two hands to my left. I don't have a bid to show a minor 4-5 two suiter in this auction. This leaves the pedestrian bid of 3♣. I like it. It suits my personality.

[P_Marlowe]

3C or double.

The risk that partner jumbs to 4H is minimal,
at least if the oppoenents are reliable
since they bid in read, and I hold 18HCP, so
if partner jumps to 4H he will have a 6 card suit.

The only problem I have, I would be reluctant
to bid 4C with just a 5 carder.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Chamaco]

P_Marlowe, on May 2 2005, 12:00 PM, said:

3C or double.

The risk that partner jumbs to 4H is minimal,
at least if the oppoenents are reliable
since they bid in read, and I hold 18HCP, so
if partner jumps to 4H he will have a 6 card suit.

The only problem I have, I would be reluctant
to bid 4C with just a 5 carder.

With kind regards
Marlowe

If you double, LHO bids 3S.

[inquiry]

Chamaco, on May 1 2005, 07:14 AM, said:

♠Qxx
♥x
♦AQJx
♣AKQxx

Matchpoints, all vulnerable
RHO deals and opens 2S, a weak 2.

What do you bid ?

You have to make your choice assuming the following listed agreements (if you do not like some or all these agreements, please respond under the given conditions, then I will happy to hear suggestions about improved agreements)

Thanks a lot !!

1- 4m is leaping michaels
2- 2NT is natural, 16-19
3- 3m is Nonforcing
4- 3S is stop ask, may prelude to slam investigation with HUGE hand (say, 3 losers or less)
5- If you double and RHO passes, 2NT by pard is Lebensohl, puppet to 3C either with
.....a. weak hand in pass/correct, or
.....b. some gameforcing hand types with a stopper
6- If you double and RHO passes, 3 of a suit by pard is natural invitational
7- If you double, pard with 4-5 hearts and GF hand, will tend to jump to 4H

I am not going to double with a singleton heart. I can not bid 4♣ as I play that as leaping michealsm and wouldn't bid that even if it wasn't. And I am certainly not gong to pass. What does that leave? An off-shape 2NT and the traditional 3♣. Since we are "only" playing for matchpoints, I think I will go with 2NT. Sure, my spade stopper is iffy, my hearts will not be what partner expects.

[joker_gib]

I think I would bid 2NT too ! Tough hand !

Alain

[pigpenz]

if we are going to play partner for a few cards whats wrong with 3NT
after all its matchpoints
i will have to see if i can find my old hand simulator where you can edit in the constraints for the hands and see what type of hands partner has.

[P_Marlowe]

Chamaco, on May 2 2005, 08:09 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on May 2 2005, 12:00 PM, said:

3C or double.

The risk that partner jumbs to 4H is minimal,
at least if the oppoenents are reliable
since they bid in read, and I hold 18HCP, so
if partner jumps to 4H he will have a 6 card suit.

The only problem I have, I would be reluctant
to bid 4C with just a 5 carder.

With kind regards
Marlowe

If you double, LHO bids 3S.

If partner passes, I bid 4C, after all I made up my
decision, when I did choose to double, to bid the
clubs on the 4 level.

It is an awkward hand, they got me, it happens.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Chamaco]

P_Marlowe, on May 2 2005, 02:35 PM, said:

If partner passes, I bid 4C, after all I made up my
decision, when I did choose to double, to bid the
clubs on the 4 level.

Worse problems may arise if pard does not pass but bids 4H with a decent hand and 5H over the 3S raise:

(2S)-X-(3S)-4H
(p)-?

Will you bid then 5m risking a big misfit at 5 level ?

[epeeist]

Chamaco, on May 2 2005, 08:09 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on May 2 2005, 12:00 PM, said:

3C or double.

The risk that partner jumbs to 4H is minimal,
at least if the oppoenents are reliable
since they bid in read, and I hold 18HCP, so
if partner jumps to 4H he will have a 6 card suit.

The only problem I have, I would be reluctant
to bid 4C with just a 5 carder.

With kind regards
Marlowe

If you double, LHO bids 3S.

I'll stick my intermediate oar in...

Still there despite that qualification? Since we might have game, don't I want something forcing? Double is forcing and (at least as far as I know in SAYC or 2/1, singleton ♥ not a problem because 16+ points). Given that, as you said, LHO bids 3!s over the double, that actually makes it easier. If partner is very weak, he or she will pass. Or if stronger bid 3NT with a ♠ stopper, or bid a suit. Sure, 4♥ wouldn't be great, but I'd assume 4♥ would show a better hand (or much more distributional) than doubling 3♠ (or passing, of course) so that 4♥ should be six-card suit as previous poster suggested, or good cards in the suit so that 4NT should be safe? (I'm assuming 4NT shouldn't be blackwood in this sort of sequence, but rather a retreat, since from partner's perspective I should be cuebidding or have already cuebid ♠ if I had slam interest, but maybe I'm all wrong there ).

Not sure what a double of 3♠ by partner would show but absent agreement I'd assume (given the vulnerability and that given 2♠ bid and raise by LHO, and Qxx in my own hand) that it was NOT for penalty but some sort of vague strength-showing "not sure where to be" bid and I'd then bid 3NT (rightsiding the contract -- I'm assuming/hoping that AK♠ both in RHO or LHO has Ax or Kx doubleton).

[P_Marlowe]

Chamaco, on May 2 2005, 09:45 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on May 2 2005, 02:35 PM, said:

If partner passes, I bid 4C, after all I made up my
decision, when I did choose to double, to bid the
clubs on the 4 level.

Worse problems may arise if pard does not pass but bids 4H with a decent hand and 5H over the 3S raise:

(2S)-X-(3S)-4H
(p)-?

Will you bid then 5m risking a big misfit at 5 level ?

No, I will pass, hoping for a 6 carder.

What do you want to prove?
That it is dangerous to take action?
Yes, I agree.

A direct 3C risks missing game, not the
worst crime at MP. 3C is heavy. For some
people it maybe to heavy.
On some day, with a certain sun, moon and
earth constellations it will be to heavy for me.

2NT is risky as well, the spade stopper is light,
to a certain degree, 2NT is a lot mor risky than
3C, because LHO may double 2NT / 3 NT
requesting a spade lead.

I will not be alone faced with this problem,
I may get a zero, playing MP, -800 is the
same as -1400. And going down for -1400, ...
well at least I go down in a gorgeous fireball.

And even if playing IMP's, there are other boards
to come, helping me to cancel the result on this
board.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Chamaco]

P_Marlowe, on May 2 2005, 03:07 PM, said:

What do you want to prove?

I am not trying to prove anything.
This hand is a problem and I am trying to analyze the various aspects.

As a result of this post, I have seen 3 popular choices:
-3C
-2NT
-Double.

Each of them has flaws which are self-evident: I am trying to hear how every poster handles the most awkward sequence (such this one).

It is obvious from my posts that I am not fond of doubling, I think the minuses outscore the pluses (it gets even worse if LHO bounces to 4S, when pard with a 6 bagger and spade void will often bid 5H, and risk losing trump control bigtime being tapped with spades), but I do not really know what's right or wrong here, otherwise I would not post :-)