[Rain]

I think the undo request, like self alerting should be seen only by oppos, who have the right to reject/accept undo. I'm saying this because I kibitzed a tournament and saw potentially unethical behaviour by users concerned.

To ask for undo and have your partner see it is the same as demanding undo. I don't see why the partner should be able to see that you've asked for undo....

What do you think? Should we change this?

[Walddk]

It wouldn't make much difference. Partner will see the bid on his screen, and moments later it will be replaced by another bid. So one doesn't have to be an Einstein to figure out what has happened.

This inevitably leads to another pet peeve of mine. I think the undo option should be dumped once and for all, with one exception of course: Vugraph operators must be able to undo when they enter a wrong call or card.

Roland

[joker_gib]

Walddk, on Apr 28 2005, 02:39 AM, said:

It wouldn't make much difference. Partner will see the bid on his screen, and moments later it will be replaced by another bid. So one doesn't have to be an Einstein to figure out what has happened.

OK, Roland, but if the undo is refused, partner won't see anything so it seems like an improvement to me !

Alain

[MickyB]

Yes, I agree this would be a worthwhile change.

[Dwingo]

Pass - Pass ( Undo requested, but refused) - Pass - ??

In fourth seat now, this Undo refusal is going to get fielded with some 1 bid to keep the bidding alive.

There is merit in the suggestion.

[scoob]

tournaments shouldn't be allowing undos, period.

[fred]

If you request an undo and the opponents reject, your partner does not see any of this happen. At least that is the way it is supposed to work - perhaps something is broken. Is anyone sure that it is not working as designed?

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[joker_gib]

fred, on Apr 28 2005, 10:22 AM, said:

If you request an undo and the opponents reject, your partner does not see any of this happen. At least that is the way it is supposed to work - perhaps something is broken. Is anyone sure that it is not working as designed?

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

Poor Fred if this is the case !

Where are we going if we ask things that already exist ?

Alain

[Double !]

I think there might be a difference between an undo request of a bid versus an undo request of a played card. Not sure about solution for former (maybe just have it that the bidder substitute a sufficient bid). But might it be reasonable to somehow program in an exposed card that is then withdrawn, per an undo request being granted, as an Exposed Card" and have program set up that the exposed card be played according to rules for exposed cards. (Maybe even a little pop-up stating the procedures and options for an exposed card for all to see.) Anyway, just a thought while sitting here working.

[Rain]

fred, on Apr 28 2005, 09:22 AM, said:

If you request an undo and the opponents reject, your partner does not see any of this happen. At least that is the way it is supposed to work - perhaps something is broken. Is anyone sure that it is not working as designed?

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

I am fairly sure everyone sees the undo request the moment its requested.

[fred]

Rain, on Apr 30 2005, 05:58 AM, said:

fred, on Apr 28 2005, 09:22 AM, said:

If you request an undo and the opponents reject, your partner does not see any of this happen. At least that is the way it is supposed to work - perhaps something is broken. Is anyone sure that it is not working as designed?

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

I am fairly sure everyone sees the undo request the moment its requested.

I just checked and you are right about that. I had thought I had designed it so that partner could not see your undo request, but either I am wrong or a bug has crept into the software.

Not sure when I will get a chance to fix this, but probably not in time for our upcoming release.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[rona_]

Well Sceptic everyone has his own view of course. I would prefer to be able to see my partner's request for an undo. In the main lounge, if I am the host, whoever does not accept an undo is asked to leave the table at the end of a hand. "Errare humanum est. Perseverare diabolicum." I happen to agree with the first part only, so, undos for all at my table. Misclicks happen due to many reasons. Arthritis, bad eye-sight, peripatetic mice . Give opps the benefit of a doubt. In tournament, I think the present system is just fine. It's up to the TD. However I would not like to see my partner's request for an undo, because a rejection would make me lose focus. Selfish!

[rona_]

I meant to add. Usually players who reject undo requests, are the ones who don't say hello when they sit down, who try to remain mute when spoken to so that when they get up and leave in the middle of playing a hand, it's harder for the host to trace them, the ones that start offending their partner once dummy is down, and one has to remove them anyway, or just poor players who want to win imps not because of their good play or defence, but because it is the only way they can win. So yes please, I would like to see my partner's undo requests in the main lounge:)

[uday]

Errare humanum est. Perseverare diabolicum. -- "To err is human. To repeat error is of the Devil."

No, never studied Latin, but apparently Google has.

[adf]

Double !, on Apr 28 2005, 12:46 PM, said:

I think there might be a difference between an undo request of a bid versus an undo request of a played card.  Not sure about solution for former (maybe just have it that the bidder substitute a sufficient bid).  But might it be reasonable to somehow program in an exposed card that is then withdrawn, per an undo request being granted, as an Exposed Card" and have program set up that the exposed card be played according to rules for exposed cards.  (Maybe even a little pop-up stating the procedures and options for an exposed card for all to see.)    Anyway, just a thought while sitting here working.

Good idea. And the undo of a bid could be done by the rules for insufficient bids in the Laws. Maybe tournaments would have three choices:
> Friendly, undos are fine
> Laws-compliant
> No undos at all.

For those who, for whatever reason, have difficulty clicking accurately, perhaps you could implement a confirmation feature that each user could turn on or off for themselves. So the bidding dialog might look like this:
[1] [2] [3] ...
♣ ♦ ♥ ♠ [NT]
[CONFIRM]