[badderzboy]

Sounds like a great idea - Any thoughts on a BIL version too?

Steve

[hrothgar]

Quick comment:

The Bridge World has many different features:

One is Challenge the Champs. Challenge the Champs is a bidding contest designed to showase the judgement and bididng prowese of different partnerships. On many occasions, the two pairs are using very different systems.

Another is the Master Solvers Forum. I'm unclear what the primary purpose of Master Solvers is... Personally, I think that it is less about the prowess of the individuals and more about trying to build consensus about a hypothetical expert "standard" bidding system...

I think that either would be a fun addition to these forums. However, I prefer both in their "pure" forms...

[mike777]

hrothgar, on Apr 29 2005, 02:27 PM, said:

Quick comment:

The Bridge World has many different features:

One is Challenge the Champs.  Challenge the Champs is a bidding contest designed to showase the judgement and bididng prowese of different partnerships.  On many occasions, the two pairs are using very different systems.

Another is the Master Solvers Forum.  I'm unclear what the primary purpose of Master Solvers is...  Personally, I think that it is less about the prowess of the individuals and more about trying to build consensus about a hypothetical expert "standard" bidding system...

I think that either would be a fun addition to these forums.  However, I prefer both in their "pure" forms...

I also add a strong vote for pure form as suggested by Hrothgar. My guess is a diluted form would be a disaster and interest lost quickly by many.
As BW reader, off and on for over 30 years here is my take.
1) Solvers club
a) Improve reader's thought making process at the table
Latest bidding thoughts and theory in competitive situations esp.
c) Poll type hands, what is an opening bid vul? allowed hand shape for weak 2 bids, minimum hcp or shape needed to respond to a one bid, etc.
d) entertainment
e) to listen to Al Roth b**ch for over 30 years, btw he just retired from club.


If possible it would be great entertainment if BEN could moderate some Bidding Challenge hands as mentioned by Hrothgar. I for one would love to see Moscito versus Auken club and many many others.

[inquiry]

Ok... if we are going to do this.. here is what we have so far...

1) I will set these up and moderate it (but not vote). This is because I can lock the thread and delete post by anyone jumping the gun and posting their comments in a new thread.

2) We have a volunteer to tabulate your votes (I would guess we would have 8 to 9 voters not on the panel). That is my big fear is we will have more panelist voting than non-panelist. Time will tell.

3) People need to suggest hands to include. You can send them to me here or at inqu...@bridgebase.com (my user handle here).

4) So far the following have agreed (I think) to be panelist.

• ritong
  
• Luis
  
• Roland (as both identities)
  
• Rado (i twisted his arm, so he will be posting here again!!)
  
• Jlall
  
• Cascade

As you can see, this is getting a global identity already. France, Argentina, Denmark, Bulgaria, US, New Zealand... what better way to probe the expert mind than have such diversity. Help twist arms of more people to participate.

Ben

[pigpenz]

I would be willing to help in anyway possible

[mike777]

I nominate Hog and Hrothgar for Al Roth role.

They both know their bidding theory, scathingly witty with erudite commentary.

[Elianna]

mike777, on Apr 29 2005, 06:32 PM, said:

I nominate Hog and Hrothgar for Al Roth role.

They both know their bidding theory, scathingly witty with erudite commentary.

I think that this is a bad idea, because I agree with Ben, that aiming for a smaller number of "official" panelists than participants is desired. The cool thing about having this here, instead of a magazine, is that, after everyone has their answers in, everyone CAN have their say in a discussion thread, so you WILL get to hear from these people, just maybe the panel size should be limited.

I suggest the five that Ben listed above (Luis, Roland, Rado, Justin, Cascade), plus after the winner of the previous contest. So except for the first, we'll have six panelists.

This way, we're only eliminating 8 (6 panelists + Ben + scorekeeper) people from participating. Hopefully there will be over 9 who do.

[keylime]

This would be great fun - I'm in and i'm getting two others to be interested.

[Double !]

I see the nominees for the Al Roth role.
Pray tell, who gets nominated to play the role of Barbara Rappaport (such a beautiful woman)?

[Double !]

Just noticed the list of suggested panelists.
BW MSC should be so lucky to have a panel of such a high caliber.

[pclayton]

Indeed.

There are several panelists on MSC who have been on there for a VERY long time, and their bridge is not what it used to be, in say the 1960's. Perhaps there are reasons why Rubens doesn't want to replace them.

BBO should not have that problem for at least another THIRTY years

[hrothgar]

Double !, on Apr 30 2005, 08:22 AM, said:

Just noticed the list of suggested panelists.
BW MSC should be so lucky to have a panel of such a high caliber.

Are you on crack?

I just grabbed a random copy of the Bridge World to look at the panelists:

Baze, Beatty, Berkowitz, Bethe, Bramley, Cohen, Eisenberg, Fallenius, Granovetter, Hamilton, Hudecek, Kantar, Katz, Kehela, Kokish, Miles, Rosenberg, Roth, Rubens, Rubin, Silver, Soloway, Swanson, Wolff, Woolsey, and few others...

With all due respect to the suggested panel, I don't think that the Bridge World comes up short in the comparison...

[pclayton]

hrothgar, on Apr 30 2005, 08:41 AM, said:

Double !, on Apr 30 2005, 08:22 AM, said:

Just noticed the list of suggested panelists.
BW MSC should be so lucky to have a panel of such a high caliber.

Are you on crack?

I just grabbed a random copy of the Bridge World to look at the panelists:

Baze, Beatty, Berkowitz, Bethe, Bramley, Cohen, Eisenberg, Fallenius, Granovetter, Hamilton, Hudecek, Kantar, Katz, Kehela, Kokish, Miles, Rosenberg, Roth, Rubens, Rubin, Silver, Soloway, Swanson, Wolff, Woolsey, and few others...

With all due respect to the suggested panel, I don't think that the Bridge World comes up short in the comparison...

I don't think BBO has a chance of surpassing BW in terms of the caliber of the MSC panel.

However, there are many on MSC that have no business setting bidding 'policy' for a system that supposedly can be used by a pick-up expert partnership. Some of the players were active when Goren played and cannot possibly be in tune with 21st century bidding philosophy.

Look at everyone's choices for the Cavendish and compare that list with the MSC panel. You'll see a lot of disparity.

[Double !]

No, Richard, not on Crack ("crack is wack"). But, believe me, where I work I could probably get my hands on some in less than 5 minutes/ always see broken crack vials on sidewalks. (south bronx vs. mem. drive and kendall/central square---OK, maybe take 10 minutes around there lololol)

I was just trying to make the observation that our selected panel is not exactly shabby, and to give the panel members my vote of support and compliments. We have some pretty darn fine players and analysts among the forum members and posters: They might not be Solloways et.al., but we have a pretty good overall base of knowledge among the forum members.

Good grief, mon. "Chill" !!!!!

[shoeless]

Some nominees if you need more - Mittmouse (both playing under this name are world champs), Kraft (for the better than EOK look )), Stewball (just cause he's totally cool)

[Walddk]

Why don't we ask Fred if he has time to be on the panel? That would be a treat! Maybe Ben already did, sorry then.

Roland

[fred]

pclayton, on Apr 30 2005, 04:24 PM, said:

Indeed.

There are several panelists on MSC who have been on there for a VERY long time, and their bridge is not what it used to be, in say the 1960's. Perhaps there are reasons why Rubens doesn't want to replace them.

BBO should not have that problem for at least another THIRTY years

I hope he doesn't replace them any time soon!

I very much enjoy reading the opinions of "senior" MSC panelists like Rubin, Wolff, Kehela, and Lazard. These guys are among the greatest and most successful players in history. Even if you think they are "out of touch with modern bidding ideas", many of the MSC problems are problems of judgment and logic that transcend system.

I even feel that I have benefited greatly from reading back issues of The Bridge World (especially the Master Solvers Club). My collection of back issues goes back all the way to the beginning (1929). Even in the earliest days of bridge where "standard bidding" was VERY different than it is today, you can learn a lot by studying the thinking processes and judgment calls of the best players.

Of course the very nature of the MSC is that I do not always agree with the opinions of all of the panelists, but there is a lot to be said for listening to other viewpoints, even if your first impression is that some of these viewpoints are crazy. This is especially true when the people providing the viewpoints have been great champions. Even if some of these people are not active tournament players anymore, they certainly were doing something right over an extended period of time. Their MSC answers help us to gain insight into what that something was.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

Walddk, on Apr 30 2005, 10:55 PM, said:

Why don't we ask Fred if he has time to be on the panel? That would be a treat! Maybe Ben already did, sorry then.

Roland

I will be happy to be on the panel, but I apologize in advance if my schedule somethimes makes it impossible for me to provide my answers in time.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Walddk]

fred, on Apr 30 2005, 07:17 PM, said:

Walddk, on Apr 30 2005, 10:55 PM, said:

Why don't we ask Fred if he has time to be on the panel? That would be a treat! Maybe Ben already did, sorry then.

Roland

I will be happy to be on the panel, but I apologize in advance if my schedule somethimes makes it impossible for me to provide my answers in time.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

Excellent news!

Roland