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misquote HCP + miss baby play

#1 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 04:43

giving tinyurl first since my hv= has problems with bidding blurbs.
http://tinyurl.com/y946azze


Blurb shows 3NT as 14-21. OK why quibble over 1 HCP since GIB has 13 HCP. I did not notice 1H is 3+ but that is still irrelevant. Did not convert to 4H since a D ruff may happen.
To me the play is quite simple. Duck first D, take next in hand and club finesse. Later can take spade hook into safe hand. Am I missing something? Perhaps GIB decided on the bidding spade King would be onside. Just another $2.27 (including table fee) swing.

vrock
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#2 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 05:37

View Postvirgosrock, on 2017-October-31, 04:43, said:

giving tinyurl first since my hv= has problems with bidding blurbs.
http://tinyurl.com/y946azze


Blurb shows 3NT as 14-21. OK why quibble over 1 HCP since GIB has 13 HCP. I did not notice 1H is 3+ but that is still irrelevant. Did not convert to 4H since a D ruff may happen.
To me the play is quite simple. Duck first D, take next in hand and club finesse. Later can take spade hook into safe hand. Am I missing something? Perhaps GIB decided on the bidding spade King would be onside. Just another $2.27 (including table fee) swing.

vrock


smerriman i have a favor to ask. can you run a simulation of GIB play 40 times, once with simple BOT, once with advanced BOT and post the play results?
If you don't have the time I have plenty of time to do it if you can show me the methodology.

thanks
vrock
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#3 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 06:59

View Postvirgosrock, on 2017-October-31, 04:43, said:

giving tinyurl first since my hv= has problems with bidding blurbs.
http://tinyurl.com/y946azze


Blurb shows 3NT as 14-21. OK why quibble over 1 HCP since GIB has 13 HCP. I did not notice 1H is 3+ but that is still irrelevant. Did not convert to 4H since a D ruff may happen.
To me the play is quite simple. Duck first D, take next in hand and club finesse. Later can take spade hook into safe hand. Am I missing something? Perhaps GIB decided on the bidding spade King would be onside. Just another $2.27 (including table fee) swing.

vrock

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#4 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 09:11

View Postvirgosrock, on 2017-October-31, 04:43, said:

giving tinyurl first since my hv= has problems with bidding blurbs.
http://tinyurl.com/y946azze


Blurb shows 3NT as 14-21. OK why quibble over 1 HCP since GIB has 13 HCP. I did not notice 1H is 3+ but that is still irrelevant. Did not convert to 4H since a D ruff may happen.
To me the play is quite simple. Duck first D, take next in hand and club finesse. Later can take spade hook into safe hand. Am I missing something? Perhaps GIB decided on the bidding spade King would be onside. Just another $2.27 (including table fee) swing.

vrock


I think you can make it, but not quite as easy as it looks at first glance.
If you duck first D and win next in hand you won’t be able to take C finesse without using ace of D. So, you lead a club to dummy and continue if west ducks. Let’s say he ducks, wins 2nd club and takes out your last diamond. If west wins first club and takes out ace of D, you can get back to your hand by overtaking club without losing an extra trick in that suit because east has 9xx. However, it could make you kinda nervous at the table. I know I would be
So it looks like you are ok now, but what happens if east refuses to take king on first spade finesse? You have 3 clubs, 2d, 1h and 2 spades and are still a trick shy with no entries back to dummy after you repeat spade finesse.
I keep trying these scenarios and don’t see enough tricks with only 1 heart and possibility of EW ducking first round in black suits. However, I noticed early in the play that you can make 3 heart tricks if your entry situation will allow it by covering anything that east plays when you lead from dummy to south hand.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
Now it’s time to see if entries and timing will allow it before opps can take 5 tricks. It’s looking good so far if I’m seeing this right. You can make it with only 1 club trick: 1C, 2D, 3H, and 3S.
Hold of on first D and win continuation in dummy. Next, lead heart to your hand, planning to cover anything that east plays.
West wins heart and takes out your last diamond. If east puts up Q first you just win it and lead a heart towards dummy’s 10. No matter what they do you now have enough entries to set up 3rd spade if east holds off on first one, but lead small to dummy rather than running 10. You'll need to finesse east in heart suit again before repeating spade finesse if west won first heart finesse with K.

I’m not so sure I’d make this hand at table, but one thing I’ve learned is that robot can be very good at messing with your entries. That’s why the entries are the first place I look for possible robot traps. Although the robots make mistakes, they are very capable of making your life difficult, and are sometimes brilliant. I find most robot tournament hands to be challenging, even when they look easy at first.

Double-check me on this. I could have missed something.
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#5 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 11:12

I asked before, but why is GIB allowed to declare hands in a money bridge game? You want to maximize skill (not just in money bridge) but having GIB declare is maximizing luck. I can see no reason for allowing GIB to be declarer. It even saves a few computing cycles since resources don't have to be used for declarer play.
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#6 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 11:14

Best is duck, DK then take spade finesse(s). East has no third diamond to play so can't take out your entry. heart shift can take 3 h. Club you are home.

Virgosrock it seems your hv posting plus signs are because of choice of browser. Your browser, when you copy/paste a URL with a space in it, converts the space into a "+" plus sign. This is standard for URL escaping but messes up the handviewer. Can either:
- try a different browser to expand the url before copy/pasting that doesn't escape spaces into +
- go through your hv URL block and do find/replace "+" back into space character

Or just post it like you have been,we can mostly figure out to ignore the extra plus signs.
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#7 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 11:19

View Postzhasbeen, on 2017-October-31, 09:11, said:

I think you can make it, but not quite as easy as it looks at first glance.
If you duck first D and win next in hand you won’t be able to take C finesse without using ace of D. So, you lead a club to dummy and continue if west ducks. Let’s say he ducks, wins 2nd club and takes out your last diamond. If west wins first club and takes out ace of D, you can get back to your hand by overtaking club without losing an extra trick in that suit because east has 9xx. However, it could make you kinda nervous at the table. I know I would be
So it looks like you are ok now, but what happens if east refuses to take king on first spade finesse? You have 3 clubs, 2d, 1h and 2 spades and are still a trick shy with no entries back to dummy after you repeat spade finesse.
I keep trying these scenarios and don’t see enough tricks with only 1 heart and possibility of EW ducking first round in black suits. However, I noticed early in the play that you can make 3 heart tricks if your entry situation will allow it by covering anything that east plays when you lead from dummy to south hand.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
Now it’s time to see if entries and timing will allow it before opps can take 5 tricks. It’s looking good so far if I’m seeing this right. You can make it with only 1 club trick: 1C, 2D, 3H, and 3S.
Hold of on first D and win continuation in dummy. Next, lead heart to your hand, planning to cover anything that east plays.
West wins heart and takes out your last diamond. If east puts up Q first you just win it and lead a heart towards dummy’s 10. No matter what they do you now have enough entries to set up 3rd spade if east holds off on first one, but lead small to dummy rather than running 10. You'll need to finesse east in heart suit again before repeating spade finesse if west won first heart finesse with K.

I’m not so sure I’d make this hand at table, but one thing I’ve learned is that robot can be very good at messing with your entries. That’s why the entries are the first place I look for possible robot traps. Although the robots make mistakes, they are very capable of making your life difficult, and are sometimes brilliant. I find most robot tournament hands to be challenging, even when they look easy at first.

Double-check me on this. I could have missed something.

GIBBO was declarer not I.
duck d. next d in GIB hand. cQ ducked (maybe). CT (should not duck). D to K in dummy. cash 2 clubs. now spade ten. i think GIBBO will duck spade 10 but one never knows.
If c ten is ducked afetr cq is ducked H ten from hand.

vrock
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#8 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 11:26

View Postvirgosrock, on 2017-October-31, 11:19, said:

GIBBO was declarer not I.
duck d. next d in GIB hand. cQ ducked (maybe). CT (should not duck). D to K in dummy. cash 2 clubs. now spade ten. i think GIBBO will duck spade 10 but one never knows.
If c ten is ducked afetr cq is ducked H ten from hand.

vrock


and whatever. I think the duck is a must.

vrock
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#9 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 12:53

View PostStephen Tu, on 2017-October-31, 11:14, said:

Best is duck, DK then take spade finesse(s). East has no third diamond to play so can't take out your entry. heart shift can take 3 h. Club you are home.

Virgosrock it seems your hv posting plus signs are because of choice of browser. Your browser, when you copy/paste a URL with a space in it, converts the space into a "+" plus sign. This is standard for URL escaping but messes up the handviewer. Can either:
- try a different browser to expand the url before copy/pasting that doesn't escape spaces into +
- go through your hv URL block and do find/replace "+" back into space character

Or just post it like you have been,we can mostly figure out to ignore the extra plus signs.


Dang, that was so easy. Short and simple play, as well as explanation.

Of all the noise going on in this old brain I only needed to ask myself 2 questions. Does east have 2 or less diamonds, and what can he do to hurt me if I play spades first and continue until I have 3 more tricks in the bag. Entry worries and tricks needed solved. Geez...
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#10 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 17:14

View Postjohnu, on 2017-October-31, 11:12, said:

I asked before, but why is GIB allowed to declare hands in a money bridge game? You want to maximize skill (not just in money bridge) but having GIB declare is maximizing luck. I can see no reason for allowing GIB to be declarer. It even saves a few computing cycles since resources don't have to be used for declarer play.


great notion johnu. Except for doubled contracts where GIBBO is masterful LOL.

vrock
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#11 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 18:07

View PostStephen Tu, on 2017-October-31, 11:14, said:

Best is duck, DK then take spade finesse(s). East has no third diamond to play so can't take out your entry. heart shift can take 3 h. Club you are home.

Virgosrock it seems your hv posting plus signs are because of choice of browser. Your browser, when you copy/paste a URL with a space in it, converts the space into a "+" plus sign. This is standard for URL escaping but messes up the handviewer. Can either:
- try a different browser to expand the url before copy/pasting that doesn't escape spaces into +
- go through your hv URL block and do find/replace "+" back into space character

Or just post it like you have been,we can mostly figure out to ignore the extra plus signs.


excellent line Stephen. I guess GIB tried same line but assumed 6D with diamond overcaller.

vrock
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