[joker_gib]

bearmum, on Apr 28 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

2♦ as ace asking

Still used nowadays in french standard !

2♦ = GF any hand

Responses are something like :

2♥ = 0-7H no ace
2♠= 1 major ace.
2NT = 8H+ or 2 kings no ace
3♣ =♣A
3♦ = ♦A
3♥= suit by KQ at least fifth no ace
3♠ = Same in spade
3NT = 2 Aces


Alain

[Double !]

Alain

Thank you so much for you description of the 2D structure in SEF. (I tried to write en Francais but can't spell anything anymore.) The reason this issue is important to me was described in my previous posting. However, I also happen to be one of the few people in my area who actually like and/or use Benjamin 2-bids. One of the major problems in most american-style bidding are the hands that one might wish to open 1M and then rebid 3M forcing. Used to be but hasn't been longer treated as being forcing for several decades. Now one often has to invent some sort of jump-shift or artificial relay, potentially creating distortions that are difficult to recover from. I suspect that Schenken and, later, Precision club systems had the issue of resolving some of these types of hands among their purposes. It is also possible to go in the opposite direct, making suit opening and rebids relatively stronger by using something like Goldilocks 2-Bids (See ETM). But who plays them?

I have been working on developing my own homegrown system, and this information might prove to be very helpful. If I've ever had the privilege of playing against some of you when playing with one of my frequent BBO partners, then you might be familiar with what I've been working on---a system that is very natural and where minor suit openings are, like majors, often if not usually 5+ card in length (or else the hand has 4 spades or extra values. Is still a work in progress, but some more ideas are being considered. So, again, my sincerest appreciation for your response and information.

Don

[bearmum]

joker_gib, on Apr 30 2005, 01:46 AM, said:

bearmum, on Apr 28 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

2♦ as ace asking 

Still used nowadays in french standard !

2♦ = GF any hand

Responses are something like :

2♥ = 0-7H no ace
2♠= 1 major ace.
2NT = 8H+ or 2 kings no ace
3♣ =♣A
3♦ = ♦A
3♥= suit by KQ at least fifth no ace
3♠ = Same in spade
3NT = 2 Aces


Alain

WOW - nice structure and really useful as long as 2♦ is an ABSOLUTE game force -- even if P is bust

The thing with Schenken 2♦ bid was is WASN'T an absolute game force bid -- could be used for really freak hands where one needed to find out about WHICH specific aces ( and then possibly specific Kings and Queens) your partner had
ANd SOMEWHERE I think I still have her original book too