[Winstonm]

Scoring: IMP

Playing 2/1 game force with forcing nt, you hear this auction with no interference:
1S-1N*
2C-?

What is your bid? Does the form of scoring make a difference?

---

[Double !]

I would bid 3 clubs.
If opener takes a shot at 3NT with 16-17, are you so unhappy with such a bid?
Most of your cards are in partner's 2 "suits", always a good sign.
I wouldn't want to be asked to tell what I observed should responder take a false preference to 2 spades---Wouldn't that constitute being asked to "bear false preference witness"?

[HeartA]

3♣. What is the problem?

[awm]

Well this might be a BART/Gazilli hand if you play those conventions. So 2♦ as a relay would seem to be an option. Otherwise I think this is sort of a fix actually. Partner will probably anticipate more values for 3♣ (wouldn't I bid 3♣ on the same hand plus the diamond king). But 2♠ could easily fail on a red suit tap when 5♣ is cold. I'd bid 3♣ if not playing BART, but I am far from happy about it.

[mike777]

awm, on Apr 28 2005, 05:46 PM, said:

Well this might be a BART/Gazilli hand if you play those conventions. So 2♦ as a relay would seem to be an option. I'd bid 3♣ if not playing BART, but I am far from happy about it.

In the version of BART I know this is a clear cut 3 CLUB bid. 5+ card support, a blocking bid, easy.

[bearmum]

3♣

[whereagles]

I bid 2S.

3C might be right, but might also drive pard to bid a hopeless 3NT with, say

Axxxx
Qxx
Kx
AQx

[joker_gib]

3♣

To hide those ♣ to partner is a crime !!

Alain

[P_Marlowe]

Your choices are Pass or 3C, Pass is a little heavy,
3C is a little light, on the other hand 3C wont hurt
a lot, altough it also wont accomplish a lot.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[inquiry]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 29 2005, 07:35 AM, said:

on the other hand 3C wont hurt a lot, altough it also wont accomplish a lot.

I wonder. If you pass 2♣, might not it be easier for your LHO to balance back in with a double or with a red suit bid? Anyway, pass would never occur to me anyway, as partner can still be quite good, and I have a great hand in support of clubs (five cards, two honors, the spade queen is a blessing too).

Ben

[P_Marlowe]

inquiry, on Apr 29 2005, 07:38 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Apr 29 2005, 07:35 AM, said:

on the other hand 3C wont hurt a lot, altough it also wont accomplish a lot.

I wonder. If you pass 2♣, might not it be easier for your LHO to balance back in with a double or with a red suit bid? Anyway, pass would never occur to me anyway, as partner can still be quite good, and I have a great hand in support of clubs (five cards, two honors, the spade queen is a blessing too).

Ben

Hi,

you are right, that Pass makes it easier for them to balance,
but this wont hurt you, because you can still bid 3C.

A possible advantage may be, that you will get them on the 3
level, in case they compete later over your 3C bid, e.g.
in a seq. like

1S - (Pass) - 1 NT (1) - (Pass)
2C - (Pass) - Pass - (2H)
Pass - (Pass) - 2 NT (2) - (Pass)
3C(3) - (3H) - Pass - (Pass)
X (4) - ...

(1) forcing NT
(2) art., showing add. values, kind of good/bad 2NT
(3) relay, minimum, but opener will never answer
anything else, even if he holds a nice hand
(4) if he holds the right hand, ... , after all openers value
may not be concentrated in spades and clubs, but in
heart an diamonds

I dont fear missing game, because he is limited to +-16HCP,
and making 5C is a long shot.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I agree, the above sequence looks a little bit like coming from
out of space ..., but hopefully it shows also, that passing may net
a nice plus score

[Fluffy]

Among pass, 3♣ and 2♠ the one I dislike the most is 3♣ (I play it as limit not sure if people play different).

2♠ seems the best spot for match points, at IMPs I am uncertain, probably would pass.

[beatrix45]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 29 2005, 04:35 AM, said:

Your choices are Pass or 3C, Pass is a little heavy,
3C is a little light, on the other hand 3C wont hurt
a lot, altough it also wont accomplish a lot.

This was my thinking exactly.

This is an instance where, at pairs or rubber bridge, I would be inclined to play the opponents and their demeanor. If they aren't a strong pair and look like they won't want to balance, then a pass has something extra going for it, and I would make one if I needed a board.

Not so at teams, passing would be a violation of trust.

[luis]

3♣, automatic.

[Chamaco]

One question here to all those who did bid 3C.

Playing 2/1 with 2/1 absolute GF, so that:
- 1S-2C denies the invitational hand with long clubs but is instead absolute GF (e.g. you do not play that 2C followed by 3C is only invitational)
- the only way you can show invitational hand with clubs is via 1NT forcing (1S-3C is already taken as something else).

1S-1NT*
2C-?

If you bid 3C with this hand a (the original)
♠ Q8 ♥ 974 ♦ Q83 ♣ KJ986

what would you bid with, say, hand b:
♠ xx ♥ Kxx ♦ xx ♣ KQJxxx
(suppose you allow for light openers so you have agreed with pard NOT to respond 2/1 with such a hand)

and, hand c:
♠ xx ♥ Axx ♦ xx ♣ KJT986

The strength of the 3 hands is quite different, yet all 3 hands MUST go via 1NT forcing.

Which of these hands should pard expect as "normal" 3C raise, ( nonforcing) ?
What do you do with a hand worth 9-11 hcp (that could not bid a 2/1 because of pship requirements for solid 2/1 responses) ?
How does pard discriminate between 8 hcp with 2 side quacks and a hand with concentrated honors ?
And according to that, do you bid 3C with all 3 hands ?
(Consider that with hand b you do not want to bid 3NT and find it's wrong sided because pard's K/Qx(x) stopper was led through in dummy)

[mike777]

Chamaco, on Apr 29 2005, 03:01 PM, said:

One question here to all those who did bid 3C.

Playing 2/1 with 2/1 absolute GF, so that:
- 1S-2C denies the invitational hand with long clubs but is instead absolute GF (e.g. you do not play that 2C followed by 3C is only invitational)
- the only way you can show invitational hand with clubs is via 1NT forcing (1S-3C is already taken as something else).

1S-1NT*
2C-?

If you bid 3C with this hand a (the original)
♠  Q8  ♥ 974  ♦  Q83  ♣  KJ986 

what would you bid with, say, hand b:
♠  xx  ♥ Kxx  ♦  xx ♣  KQJxxx
(suppose you allow for light openers so you have agreed with pard NOT to respond 2/1 with such a hand)

and, hand c:
♠  xx  ♥ Axx  ♦  xx ♣  KJT986

The strength of the 3 hands is quite different, yet all 3 hands MUST go via 1NT forcing.

Which of these hands should pard expect as "normal" 3C raise, ( nonforcing) ?
What do you do with a hand worth 9-11 hcp (that could not bid a 2/1 because of pship requirements for solid 2/1 responses) ?
How does pard discriminate between 8 hcp with 2 side quacks and a hand with concentrated honors ?
And according to that, do you bid 3C with all 3 hands ?
(Consider that with hand b you do not want to bid 3NT and find it's wrong sided because pard's K/Qx(x) stopper was led through in dummy)

This is what BART was invented for. Mike Passell calls it a Must convention for all int. and up partnerships.

Many versions of BART around. My guess is you can google or maybe even search this forum for old posts to see approved versions.

In the one I know:

3c=5+ cards and blocking bid.
with invite in clubs you go through 2D.
Over 2D opener has many rebids to choose from, it gets a bit complicated.

If interested in seeing version, shoot me email and I can send 2 page summary.

Death hand is 5332 and 13HCP with this responder hand of 5 clubs. I might fudge and rebid 2D with that exact hand, lesser of 2 evils.

Solve many problems but still leaves some problem hands.

[Double !]

Got an interesting (to me) question.

If partner had opened 1 heart, then the impossible 2S would be theoretically available of this auction... Is there something similar that's available if the opening bid is 1 spade to tell partner "YES! You hit me big time with 2C?"