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Confederate statues My view

#241 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-July-29, 06:29

I was baffled. Nothing to do with thepossum ring- or brush- tailed. No hominems ad'ed here.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#242 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2020-July-29, 06:39

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-July-29, 06:29, said:

I was baffled. Nothing to do with thepossum ring- or brush- tailed. No hominems ad'ed here.


It needed a response. Too ambiguous by far
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#243 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-July-29, 08:46

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-July-29, 03:30, said:

And just thought I'd step back in history to see if anything was different in the old days.
It wasn't
https://www.youtube....h?v=QxIWDmmqZzY
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Perhaps in some weird way this could lead to a useful discussion. Useful to me anyway.

To start with the obvious, they are very good, are they not?

I have immense gaps in my knowledge of music. I see this concert was from 1977. That's about when my second marriage was breaking up and I was a mess. I couldn't tell Lynyrd Skynyrd fro Mama Cass. (Ok, I looked it up and she was dead by then. But I didn't know that.)

Otoh, Becky (wife number 3, I wed three wives) says she wants Freebird played at her funeral. I don't think she is joking. Not that either of us is planning for a funeral anytime soon. I just now played the cited video and Becky came out to ask why I was not up and dancing. She continued watching and commented on how the audience knew how to appreciate good music.

We saw Lynyrd Skinyrd (well, re-constituted, I know) a few years back.

I am not sure I want Freebird played at my funeral, but I do think it's a great number.

I volunteer as a guinea pig. Feel free to say what you think of me for my enthusiasm for Freenird.

The reason I think this could be useful is that it had not, until just now, even vaguely occurred to me that liking Freebird might mean anything other than that I liked Freebird. And i am far from sure that it should mean anything else.
Ken
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#244 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-July-29, 11:38

View Postkenberg, on 2020-July-29, 08:46, said:

Perhaps in some weird way this could lead to a useful discussion. Useful to me anyway.

To start with the obvious, they are very good, are they not?

I have immense gaps in my knowledge of music. I see this concert was from 1977. That's about when my second marriage was breaking up and I was a mess. I couldn't tell Lynyrd Skynyrd fro Mama Cass. (Ok, I looked it up and she was dead by then. But I didn't know that.)

Otoh, Becky (wife number 3, I wed three wives) says she wants Freebird played at her funeral. I don't think she is joking. Not that either of us is planning for a funeral anytime soon. I just now played the cited video and Becky came out to ask why I was not up and dancing. She continued watching and commented on how the audience knew how to appreciate good music.

We saw Lynyrd Skinyrd (well, re-constituted, I know) a few years back.

I am not sure I want Freebird played at my funeral, but I do think it's a great number.

I volunteer as a guinea pig. Feel free to say what you think of me for my enthusiasm for Freenird.

The reason I think this could be useful is that it had not, until just now, even vaguely occurred to me that liking Freebird might mean anything other than that I liked Freebird. And i am far from sure that it should mean anything else.


I think it is fairly simple - the listener determines the values and how they apply to themselves.

I happen to like Robby Robertson's "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" played by The Band. I appreciate that Robertson, a Canadian, took the trouble to get the facts mostly right in the song, that there really was a Danville train and Stoneman did tear up the tracks over and over. I can appreciate and sympathize with the feelings of the song narrator without agreeing with his politics.

However, I would not want this song played as an expression of my life. I like the song; I like the mood expressed; at the same time, I am completely disgusted by the political views expressed, that it was romantic somehow to be a Confederate and a traitor. If they did not want their "very best" taken, they should not have started a traitorous war.

And to be clear, the south was not just traitorous to the United States, but were traitors of humanity as their only goal in creating a separate government was to justify continued enslavement of fellow human beings. That was the entirety of the states' rights they now claim - but it was only the right of a state to enslave.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#245 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-July-29, 13:44

View Postkenberg, on 2020-July-29, 08:46, said:

Perhaps in some weird way this could lead to a useful discussion. Useful to me anyway.

To start with the obvious, they are very good, are they not?

I have immense gaps in my knowledge of music. I see this concert was from 1977. That's about when my second marriage was breaking up and I was a mess. I couldn't tell Lynyrd Skynyrd fro Mama Cass. (Ok, I looked it up and she was dead by then. But I didn't know that.)

Otoh, Becky (wife number 3, I wed three wives) says she wants Freebird played at her funeral. I don't think she is joking. Not that either of us is planning for a funeral anytime soon. I just now played the cited video and Becky came out to ask why I was not up and dancing. She continued watching and commented on how the audience knew how to appreciate good music.

We saw Lynyrd Skinyrd (well, re-constituted, I know) a few years back.

I am not sure I want Freebird played at my funeral, but I do think it's a great number.

I volunteer as a guinea pig. Feel free to say what you think of me for my enthusiasm for Freenird.

The reason I think this could be useful is that it had not, until just now, even vaguely occurred to me that liking Freebird might mean anything other than that I liked Freebird. And i am far from sure that it should mean anything else.


Count me in as an admirer of Skynyrd's music if not their values. And other than really serious political affiliations which you can't divorce from the music (there is a Hungarian band which after I decided I liked the music, I discovered was essentially Jobbik's house band and many of the lyrics were ultra nationalist), I tend to let the music stand on its own. I don't listen to Gary Glitter any more either, but am prepared to listen to people whose views/misbehaviour fall short of that.
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#246 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-July-29, 14:24

If we are diverging into music, my favorite song from my favorite band
They are phenomenal live

https://www.youtube....h?v=Owia8H9zbdM
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#247 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-July-29, 15:21

The reason that music can be toe-tapping good, funny, wildly inappropriate and completely bad all at the same time was explained by Mel Brooks in the Producers. Easily one of my faves. https://www.youtube....h?v=1zY1orxW8Aw
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#248 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-July-29, 19:34

As much as I liked Freebird, and that's quite a bit. I disliked The Producers even more. But neither my liking of Freebird or my very substantial dislike of The Producers was in any way connected to my political/social/moral views. I just thought The Producers was a really dumb movie.

Which is something I was getting at.

Life can be complicated. But sometimes it is simple/ I like Freebird. I dislike The Producers. That's pretty much the beginning and the end of it. I don't even have an artistically informed opinion of either and I am happy to have no politically informed of either.
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#249 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2020-August-01, 23:25

For some of us we grew up being inspired but good music from all sources. And if you want a good performance from my teens in the UK, you cant do much better than this one

Old Grey Whistle Test - Freebird

I miss good live music shows

Oh, and for those who get at all confused what influenced me politcally was the economic, political and racial issues in our country at the time. Not whether somebody likes making political capital from a band with some of the best musicians in the world at the time. My first awareness of music politically was a few years later - thats more age related than anything. Its strange trying to place things in time, when you heard what, and became more interested in music and politics - maybe when the BBC refused to play God Save the Queen/Anarchy in the UK and a curious teenager wonders why? etc

PS I enjoyed Mel Brooks movies too. I cant remember the first one I saw, maybe Blazing Saddles
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#250 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-August-02, 00:17

Hitler was a vegetarian. But on the whole, being a genocidal murderer makes home not good and I don't like him. My family would still be alive in Poland if it wasn't for him.
Donald Trump does not drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes as far as I know. but he failed to listen to good advice and as a result, thousands of people died needlessly in the current pandemic.
Nazi doctors performed experiments on human subjects that allegedly resulted in the collection of data that was used to save the lives of German soldiers.
Simply because some people have a 'skill' in an area that someone else finds admirable or just because they believe that what they are doing is in a 'good cause'. does not make it admirable.
What is admirable about being the world champion at Bridge if your partner has a heart attack and you do not know basic first aid.
If you consider the producers to be 'dumb' or do not understand why Southern Rock in the USA may not be all that great or why the 3rd Reich was a bad thing, then your moral compass may need re-alignment.
By the way, most 'pop/rock is all the same - just listen to axis of awesome. Or Pachelbel rant. There is nothing impressive about being paid large amounts of money for doing nothing productive at all.
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#251 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2020-August-02, 01:49

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-August-02, 00:17, said:

Hitler was a vegetarian. But on the whole, being a genocidal murderer makes home not good and I don't like him. My family would still be alive in Poland if it wasn't for him.
Donald Trump does not drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes as far as I know. but he failed to listen to good advice and as a result, thousands of people died needlessly in the current pandemic.
Nazi doctors performed experiments on human subjects that allegedly resulted in the collection of data that was used to save the lives of German soldiers.
Simply because some people have a 'skill' in an area that someone else finds admirable or just because they believe that what they are doing is in a 'good cause'. does not make it admirable.
What is admirable about being the world champion at Bridge if your partner has a heart attack and you do not know basic first aid.
If you consider the producers to be 'dumb' or do not understand why Southern Rock in the USA may not be all that great or why the 3rd Reich was a bad thing, then your moral compass may need re-alignment.
By the way, most 'pop/rock is all the same - just listen to axis of awesome. Or Pachelbel rant. There is nothing impressive about being paid large amounts of money for doing nothing productive at all.


OK. But its a bit much throwing that lot at someone for enjoying Freebird when he heard it at 12 years old. And I resent any attempt at any association at all. You also seem to have a serious elitism problem with your attitude to the people's music too.

Too be honest Pilowsky, it is you to needs to look in the mirror and adjust a very wayward compass indeed. You claimed not to be engaging in vicious ad hominem earlier yet you have doubled down with disgsuting implications. Maybe in your narrow academic cicrlces that doesnt like rock and blues you can get away with that ignorant prejudice. But its time to back off mate. You are ctually being an rrogant and ignorant *** even suggesting that someone likes me has anything to answer or any need to adjust any compass at all. You know nothing about me yet throw the most disgusting implcations. So please back off. But I guess you are used to that kind of disgusting tactic to intimidate good people in your circles. What the hell

But I feel into your trap. Fell into being the one on these boards that the trolls love to bait and push their buttons. Well it works because your kind of attacks can never be left undefended. Oh dear look at that disgusting **** having a go at poor Pilowsky. I guess I'm not even permitted to say anything like that these days without yet another accusation thrown at me. You cant win even standing up for yourself. Do you even know who I am. FFS
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#252 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-August-02, 02:08

I am agreeing with you.
I also liked Freebird when I was 12 years old.
I liked them when I was 62 years old. It was only last week when I had cause in the context of this discussion about BLM, confederate statues and so forth to change my mind.
It has absolutely nothing to do with you at all.
I never make ad hominem attacks although - like you - I certainly feel the need to sometimes.
Good humoured ripostes seem to work best.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#253 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2020-August-02, 02:39

Oh. I should have added. If you think playing guitar well is a skill to mocked it kind of sums up the ignorance of much of the elite we all have to deal with, thinking they are better than everyone else and have some intrinisic merit of their own. For some reason, despite the obvious degradation of a valued and respected institution, everyone in that institution seems to walk around as if they are some superior beings. Well I will tell you something. Some are worthy of that belief but many are not. You may find the most meritorious chose alternative paths - sorry for throwing your own measures back at you

And some of have actually been personally and professionally attacked by countless people in this country, people actually of lower merit, some of them from your neck of the woods in the Sydney elites. Maybe its the way you lot roll some of the unprofessional stuff I have dealt with from so-called senior professionals in my life has been disgraceful. So just watch it

But I am running another risk, a professional risk being drawn into these kind of fights and having to defend myslef against people. Some of us have codes and ethics. We are at great risk being drawn in. So please, stop doing it. Please do not be one of those people who seems to love tripping people up, twisting good professional people's words/anything to undermine them and cause them professional problems. Over the years I have faced countless disgraceful private and public attakcs from so-called professionals who actually dont know the meaning of it or professsional behaviour. Belief you me I stand up against them publicly every time. It cannot be tolerated

Please just dont do it
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