[Poky]

Scoring: MP

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pass pass pass 1♦
pass 1NT 2♥ pass
3♦ pass ???

What is bidding our partner with 3♦?
What would have been 2NT instead of 3♦?
Wha do you bid?

[Gerben42]

Fit showing non-jump I guess.
I bid 3♥.

[luke warm]

first, partner passed as dealer then couldn't double or bid over 1♦... now he wants to make a strongish bid supporting hearts? that could be true, but i don't think so... i believe he has real diamonds, probably 6 of them.. opener probably has 4 (tho he could be 3/2 in the minors)

i think an original opening bid by south of 1♥ can be defended, but since he passed i don't think he can now bid again... i believe i'd pass

as for 2nt, i'd take that as showing heart support with 8 or 9 points

[mike777]

luke warm, on Apr 23 2005, 10:05 AM, said:

first, partner passed as dealer then couldn't double or bid over 1♦... now he wants to make a strongish bid supporting hearts? that could be true, but i don't think so... i believe he has real diamonds, probably 6 of them.. opener probably has 4 (tho he could be 3/2 in the minors)

i think an original opening bid by south of 1♥ can be defended, but since he passed i don't think he can now bid again... i believe i'd pass

as for 2nt, i'd take that as showing heart support with 8 or 9 points

Good Point Jimmy.

Notice how easy this hand becomes if we just open 1H and then try and shut up. If P has denied 11 HCP or shapely 10HCP with pass in first seat we get this hand off our chests in one bid.

Now I am guessing partner has something like:
XXX=VOID=QJ9XXXX=AXX and did not want to preempt.
Of course with that hand we are getting Killed in 3DX Vul.

[pclayton]

This isn't a tough one.

You are bidding in a live auction so you should have some playing strength (which you do).

3♦ shows a max pass over 1♦ - likely a 14 count without a great diamond stopper, but not the right shape: Kx, Axxx, Axxx, Kxx. Even if every key card is wrong (which they won't be) we still make 4♥

[inquiry]

pclayton, on Apr 23 2005, 12:31 PM, said:

This isn't a tough one.

You are bidding in a live auction so you should have some playing strength (which you do).

3♦ shows a max pass over 1♦ - likely a 14 count without a great diamond stopper, but not the right shape: Kx, Axxx, Axxx, Kxx. Even if every key card is wrong (which they won't be) we still make 4♥

Dont you think your partner would have opened with that hand?

[flytoox]

I bid 4H. Pd passed twice, and I passed once. But pd still invite me to bid a game. I do have a maximum hand in the context. There is no reason to reject his invitation.

[beatrix45]

What a bizarre auction! Is partner a comedian? I'm with luke on this one, it just can't be a cue bid in support of hearts. Both partner and I are passed hands, so neither of us have power which is what the cue bid advertises. With a distributional heart fit, partner ought to raise hearts directly.

She must have six or seven diamonds, I suppose. At least that would be consistent with her second pass. At any rate, I PASS.

As to criticism of my first round pass, I am joining right in. My hand is a book two heart opener aside from the spade holding, but partner is a passed hand, so the biggest potential downside, missing a spade game, isn't likely. A one heart opener strikes me as better than a pass.

[pclayton]

inquiry, on Apr 23 2005, 08:58 AM, said:

pclayton, on Apr 23 2005, 12:31 PM, said:

This isn't a tough one.

You are bidding in a live auction so you should have some playing strength (which you do).

3♦ shows a max pass over 1♦ - likely a 14 count without a great diamond stopper, but not the right shape: Kx, Axxx, Axxx, Kxx. Even if every key card is wrong (which they won't be) we still make 4♥

Dont you think your partner would have opened with that hand?

Oh - never mind - thought pard passed orginally over 1♦. Scatterbrained as usual.

In that case the 3♦ call makes absolutely no sense - except as a long string of diamonds and couldn't preempt in 1st chair.

That doesn't make a lot of sense either.

[flytoox]

beatrix45, on Apr 23 2005, 07:47 PM, said:

What a bizarre auction! Is partner a comedian? I'm with luke on this one, it just can't be a cue bid in support of hearts. Both partner and I are passed hands, so neither of us have power which is what the cue bid advertises. With a distributional heart fit, partner ought to raise hearts directly.

She must have six or seven diamonds, I suppose. At least that would be consistent with her second pass. At any rate, I PASS.

As to criticism of my first round pass, I am joining right in. My hand is a book two heart opener aside from the spade holding, but partner is a passed hand, so the biggest potential downside, missing a spade game, isn't likely. A one heart opener strikes me as better than a pass.

Bridge is so interesting. We often get different conclusion from same facts. Pd did preempt with 2/3D, neither 2H was dbled by the opener. How could 3D be a better place than 2H? It is one trick higher, and it is a marked misfit.

I dont see any point playing 3D as natural. On the other hand, pd is likely to have some good 10-11 points and spt for hearts. He thinks game is still possible even though both passed originally. But he want to consult pd's opinion.

[HeartA]

Jlall, on Apr 23 2005, 06:05 PM, said:

good heart raise. 4H.

ditto.

[mike777]

HeartA, on Apr 23 2005, 09:18 PM, said:

Jlall, on Apr 23 2005, 06:05 PM, said:

good heart raise. 4H.

ditto.

I can only assume since we passed with an opening hand, you assume our partner has also.

[luke warm]

that seems to be a safe assumption

i still think 3d showed diamonds...

hongjun said:

I dont see any point playing 3D as natural. On the other hand, pd is likely to have some good 10-11 points and spt for hearts. He thinks game is still possible even though both passed originally

do you really think so? 3 passes and your rho opens 1d... what type hand can you possibly have that would:
1) not double now
2) not overcall now
3) cue for partner's balance later, expecting game from 2 passed hands?

answer to 1 and 2 is, a hand with diamonds... say 11 max hcp.. answer to #3 is, i have no clue...

[awm]

Seems like the field is split between 3♦ showing diamonds and showing hearts. I'll go with both and say it's a fit non-jump.

It's hard to imagine game with most hands partner could have. So why is he bidding? If he JUST has a bunch of diamonds, trying to rescue from 2♥ or something, it seems like he could've opened some number of diamonds. And he could also pass 2♥ and wait for the double before running.

On the other hand, with a heart raise it seems like partner could bid 3♥ or 4♥. Also 2NT is probably a heart raise (it's such a ridiculous contract by two passed hands, I don't think it's to play).

My guess would be that partner has something that looks like a weak 2♦ opening, but passed the hand because of holding four card hearts on the side.

[mike777]

awm, on Apr 23 2005, 11:42 PM, said:

Seems like the field is split between 3♦ showing diamonds and showing hearts. I'll go with both and say it's a fit non-jump.

It's hard to imagine game with most hands partner could have. So why is he bidding? If he JUST has a bunch of diamonds, trying to rescue from 2♥ or something, it seems like he could've opened some number of diamonds. And he could also pass 2♥ and wait for the double before running.

On the other hand, with a heart raise it seems like partner could bid 3♥ or 4♥. Also 2NT is probably a heart raise (it's such a ridiculous contract by two passed hands, I don't think it's to play).

My guess would be that partner has something that looks like a weak 2♦ opening, but passed the hand because of holding four card hearts on the side.

BTW if we force third hand to open 1H and bidding goes:
P=P=1H=2D
P=P=??

At MP or IMP do you:
1) pass
2) rebid 2H
3) X?

[HeartA]

luke warm, on Apr 23 2005, 11:22 PM, said:

do you really think so? 3 passes and your rho opens 1d... what type hand can you possibly have that would:
1) not double now
2) not overcall now
3) cue for partner's balance later, expecting game from 2 passed hands?

answer to 1 and 2 is, a hand with diamonds... say 11 max hcp.. answer to #3 is, i have no clue...

yes, pd has length in D, (maybe 5), and good support for H (AKx, Kxx or even Kxxx), 10-11 hcp. His hand is just a little shy to open, no suit to overcall, and not the right shape for dbl. pd could have Kx, Kxxx, Axxxx, xx.

[flytoox]

luke warm, on Apr 24 2005, 04:22 AM, said:

that seems to be a safe assumption

i still think 3d showed diamonds...

hongjun said:

I dont see any point playing 3D as natural. On the other hand, pd is likely to have some good 10-11 points and spt for hearts. He thinks game is still possible even though both passed originally

do you really think so? 3 passes and your rho opens 1d... what type hand can you possibly have that would:
1) not double now
2) not overcall now
3) cue for partner's balance later, expecting game from 2 passed hands?

answer to 1 and 2 is, a hand with diamonds... say 11 max hcp.. answer to #3 is, i have no clue...

Jimmy, Pd's hand may not suit for t/o dbl. For example, Jx,Axx,Axxx,Qxxx. However, I dont think giving example hand is a good way to argue. I just think logically, playing 3D as good suport for H and invite game is more sensible.

Note here after opp's 1D-1N, both minors are danger suits. On the ohter hand, majors are safe suits. Can you explain in this case why 3D should be natural diamond suit and pd want to play it? As I said in a previous post,(1) We are likely to have fit in majors,(2)2H is not dbled, so no need to escape now even if it is a bad contract,(3)3D is one level higher, and it is a marked bad break. (4)Pd passed 1st round.

It is really hard to imagine pd wants to play 3D. Neither 3D as fit jump makes much sense, coz it will not help pd, and it will only help opps.

As for both passed hands to bid a game, it is rare, but not unlikely. In this case, the 2H overcaller's hand is very good one in the context.

[flytoox]

mike777, on Apr 24 2005, 05:35 AM, said:

awm, on Apr 23 2005, 11:42 PM, said:

Seems like the field is split between 3♦ showing diamonds and showing hearts. I'll go with both and say it's a fit non-jump.

It's hard to imagine game with most hands partner could have. So why is he bidding? If he JUST has a bunch of diamonds, trying to rescue from 2♥ or something, it seems like he could've opened some number of diamonds. And he could also pass 2♥ and wait for the double before running.

On the other hand, with a heart raise it seems like partner could bid 3♥ or 4♥. Also 2NT is probably a heart raise (it's such a ridiculous contract by two passed hands, I don't think it's to play).

My guess would be that partner has something that looks like a weak 2♦ opening, but passed the hand because of holding four card hearts on the side.

BTW if we force third hand to open 1H and bidding goes:
P=P=1H=2D
P=P=??

At MP or IMP do you:
1) pass
2) rebid 2H
3) X?

In this case I think it is better to pass. Pd could not take any action after 2D, there is no safe action for us. On the other hand, opps are likely in the worst possible place. Dont give them chance to improve.

[luke warm]

mike777, on Apr 23 2005, 11:35 PM, said:

awm, on Apr 23 2005, 11:42 PM, said:

Seems like the field is split between 3♦ showing diamonds and showing hearts. I'll go with both and say it's a fit non-jump.

It's hard to imagine game with most hands partner could have. So why is he bidding? If he JUST has a bunch of diamonds, trying to rescue from 2♥ or something, it seems like he could've opened some number of diamonds. And he could also pass 2♥ and wait for the double before running.

On the other hand, with a heart raise it seems like partner could bid 3♥ or 4♥. Also 2NT is probably a heart raise (it's such a ridiculous contract by two passed hands, I don't think it's to play).

My guess would be that partner has something that looks like a weak 2♦ opening, but passed the hand because of holding four card hearts on the side.

BTW if we force third hand to open 1H and bidding goes:
P=P=1H=2D
P=P=??

At MP or IMP do you:
1) pass
2) rebid 2H
3) X?

mike, the only thing that keeps me from reopening here is the fact that my hand was weakish to begin with... but your point is taken, if my hand was strong enough to reopen and i did, i think partner would pass the double... this confirms my view that he has diamonds

yes, he could also have hearts, but it that case why not just support? why would he think to invite game when he's a passed hand as well as partner?