[TheoKole]

Scoring: XIMP

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My partner opened the bidding with 1♦, and my thoughts turn immediately, to some type of slam, even NT may be right if partner is 3, 3, 6, 1 or 3, 3, 5, 2.

I bid 1 ♥, planning for a reverse to ♠ as a rebid and a rebid of ♣, if I keep hearing diamonds. The bidding could perhaps go,

1♦ -> 1♥ -> 2♦ -> 2♠ -> 3♦ -> 4♣,

Another possibility is to start with 2♣ as in,

1♦ -> 2♣ -> 2♦ -> 2♥ - > 3♦ - > 3♠

I have to assume it is reasonable that I would have at least 1 quick entry to partners hand unless he has AKQJ10 ♦ and J♥.

Anyways, after my 1♥ bid he responds 2♥ indicating a minimum opening with 4 hearts. Having found a fit but in my weakest suit, I have a different problem of my rebid.

Asking for Aces in RKC is wrong in my books because if he gives 1 Ace I have no idea if it is the A♦ or K♥. I chose 5 ♥ as a rebid to ask about the quality of the trump suit, this seemed like a reasonable risk as even with 6,5,4,2 ♥ in partners hand is still only 2 losers on a 3-2 ♥ break.

Would anybody bid 5NT as a grand slam force?

I'll follow up on the bidding and play, after a while, any and all comments appreciated.

[mike777]

Must admit I would have started with 2C then if P rebids 2H(5-4), rebid 3H asking p to start cuebidding.

Of course if bidding goes:
1D=2C=2NT(11-13,bal)=3H=4H then I have some choices to make.

In your auction after 2H, I would rebid 2s(game try) and clarify later with more cuebids.

[Winstonm]

As long as there is no systemic reason why you can't bid 2C the first time, you would have been better served bidding out your real shape and getting some more information from partner. Suppose you bid 2C and partner bids 2D - now you know partner doesn't have a real big hand and doesn't have a good club fit with you. You can now follow with 2H. Not only is this a game force, but it shows that the clubs are longer than the hearts, allowing partner to give secondary support of clubs with xxx. If partner instead raises hearts, you can then cue bid 3S, showing your interest in slam. There are many ways the auction can go from here.

I cannot give you an answer to the question as you presented it as I would never consider bidding 1H the first time unless playing canape', in which my next bid over 2D would still be 3C, creating a game force and showing my longest suit.

[whereagles]

1D 2C
2D 2H

now, if pard bids

2S <--- support with 3S and start cueing
3H <--- start cueing
3C <--- bid 4C to start cues
3D <--- support in 4D(!!). Pard should have at least 7 of them, and you want to ask for keycards
3NT <--- bid 6NT

[Fluffy]

1♦-2♣
2♦-2♠

would be mystart, wich is clearly no as agood s starting with 1♥ when partner has 4♥


if biding goes:

1♦-1♥
2♥

Now 4♦ is splinter, and is what you should bid.

[beatrix45]

I would bid 5NT like a shot, unless of course, you are playing a style that features very light opening bids. It's hard to construct a normal opening bid that won't give you a reasonable play for 7H opposite KQxx of hearts, and it may well be a laydown.

Opposite:

xxx
KQxx
AQxx
xx

you need no heart loser and either 3-3 clubs or the spade hook or a diamond opening lead from the king.

The spade queen or the club jack are going to be worth a trick. If you are off the diamond ace, it may get led, setting up a zillion tricks.

[luis]

With respect I think that not bidding 2♣ is very stupid.
With a strong hand I can't understand not bidding our longest suit first. Amazangly there're people out there teaching this otherwise nobody will even think about 1♥ on this hand.

[HeartA]

luis, on Apr 22 2005, 12:07 PM, said:

With respect I think that not bidding 2♣ is very stupid.
With a strong hand I can't understand not bidding our longest suit first. Amazangly there're people out there teaching this otherwise nobody will even think about 1♥ on this hand.

ditto.

[hrothgar]

There are two reasonable ways to proceed with this hand.

If you are playing MAFIA, then you can (and should) advance with 1♥. However, your follow-up auction will be based on assumming captaincy via some type of checkback.

If you are not playing MAFIA, then you need to respond 2♣. If you "reverse", and show HEarts and then Spades, partner is going to figure you for 4=5=0=4

[EricK]

hrothgar, on Apr 22 2005, 05:17 PM, said:

There are two reasonable ways to proceed with this hand.

If you are playing MAFIA, then you can (and should) advance with 1♥. However, your follow-up auction will be based on assumming captaincy via some type of checkback.

If you are not playing MAFIA, then you need to respond 2♣. If you "reverse", and show HEarts and then Spades, partner is going to figure you for 4=5=0=4

Even playing MAFIA should you bid 1♥ rather than 1♠?

"Don't bid bad suits on good hands" is a useful precept IMO.

Eric

[the hog]

luis, on Apr 23 2005, 03:07 AM, said:

With respect I think that not bidding 2♣ is very stupid.
With a strong hand I can't understand not bidding our longest suit first. Amazangly there're people out there teaching this otherwise nobody will even think about 1♥ on this hand.

Ho hum Luis, we have been through this many times before. Your comment above is foolish. It is perfectly possible to play a system where 2C is NOT the correct bid. Playing MAFIA style, 1H is obvious. This may not be to your taste, but the top Poles would disagree with you.

To extrapolate the argument further, playing a relay system, which you also play(ed) at one time, the first bid will be a relay bid, probably not 2C. So the truth of the matter is that your first bid depends on the system you play - there are many ways to start the auction. Note that our initial poster did not specify 2/1 or Sayc

[keylime]

2C is so clearcut here. Why are we lying about our lengths? We don't deny majors, c'mon....

[luis]

The_Hog, on Apr 23 2005, 01:04 AM, said:

luis, on Apr 23 2005, 03:07 AM, said:

With respect I think that not bidding 2♣ is very stupid.
With a strong hand I can't understand not bidding our longest suit first. Amazangly there're people out there teaching this otherwise nobody will even think about 1♥ on this hand.

Ho hum Luis, we have been through this many times before. Your comment above is foolish. It is perfectly possible to play a system where 2C is NOT the correct bid. Playing MAFIA style, 1H is obvious. This may not be to your taste, but the top Poles would disagree with you.

To extrapolate the argument further, playing a relay system, which you also play(ed) at one time, the first bid will be a relay bid, probably not 2C. So the truth of the matter is that your first bid depends on the system you play - there are many ways to start the auction. Note that our initial poster did not specify 2/1 or Sayc

Ho hum quite a fun post Ron :-)
The poster didn't say he was playing an artificial system so we are all talking about SAYC or 2/1. In both cases 2♣ is automatic.
Playing the Quarck system the correct bid is 3♦ showing 4-4-0-5 and 8 controls but nobody mentioned the 3♦ bid, Ho hum what a surprise.

[Walddk]

Playing a natural system my suggestion is:

Bid a shorter major at the 1-level if you are not strong enough to force to game. Bid your longer suit (minor) at the 2-level if you are at least game going.

1♦ - 2♣
2♦ - 2♥

Will then be the likely start to this auction. 2♦ rebid will be the most frequent, followed by 2NT. Over 2NT I will bid 3♥ and expect partner to bid 3♠ if he has 4, and not 4 hearts.

Roland

[stuartmn]

This is going too fast.Over prtners 2H ,you should bid 2S and see what he does.Also I would take your 5H bid as asking for a spade control (the unbid suit).

[mike777]

Seems as if all or almost all are assuming 2D rebid, not sure why, given the bidding P may be 4-4.

If so hand becomes advertisement for full relay or asking bid systems, when one hand is strong and just wants answer to a few specific issues.

BTW it is stated 2h=4 but we all know forum posters who love to raise on 3 Hearts.

[the hog]

"The poster didn't say he was playing an artificial system so we are all talking about SAYC or 2/1. In both cases 2C is automatic."

You should know better Luis. There are quite a number of 2/1 practitioners who play MAFIA responses, and who believe they have sound theoretical reasons for doing so. For them 2C denies a 4 card Major. The point I made in my last post is that it is foolish to criticize a bid in isolation without looking at your system as a whole. If you don't like MAFIA, thats fine, but don't say:

"Amazangly there're people out there teaching this otherwise nobody will even think about 1H on this hand."

as if anyone who plays/teaches this style does not know what he is talking about. You never know Luis, Balicki might take exception.

Ron

[inquiry]

All you 2/1 guys are lame. Who would want to bid the pedestrian 2♣ or even worse, non-descriptive 1♥, or really confusing 1♠ with this hand. This hand is PERFECT for the Quarck system. I thought maybe luis would point this out, and he tried but got it slightly wrong. In Quarck, he suggested the correct bid is 3♦ showing 4-4-0-5 and 8 controls. That is true as far as it goes, but 3♦ suggest better hearts than spades. Here with AKxx of spades, and only ATxx of hearts, 3♦ would be all wrong. The right bid is 3♥ that shows the same distribution, but with stronger spades and weaker hearts, still eight controls, still diamond void.

And if you don';t play Quarck, any student in one class i know would tell you the right bid then would be 4♦.. haven't you ever heard of self-splitner... you tell partner what you don;t have, let him pick the suit.

Funny these bids not mentioned...

[stuartmn]

Sorry I got it wrong.After 1d-1h-2h 5h does ask about hearts.I forgot that 2c had not been bid.I play 2/1 and would bid 2c over 1d with a game forcing hand.In your auction after 2h I would bid 2s to see what partner does If he rejects your game try by biding 3h then you bid 4c
and partner knows that you have a slam try with extras ( otherwise you would sign off in game after partner rejects even a game try).

[Rebound]

My call would be 2♣. You can debate about it all you want but it's the best way to force the auction. Fortunately, with my precision partners, it's a lot easier. Over 1♦, 2♦ is an artificial game force. It's too easy after that. :-)

Sadly, there are too many who have not had the benefit of your experience, Ben, so I would not dare bid 4♦ for fear partner take this to be a natural bid of some sort.