[Fluffy]

All my strneght is in partner's shortness, so I am gonna pass.

[joker_gib]

Fluffy, on Apr 21 2005, 08:50 AM, said:

All my strneght is in partner's shortness, so I am gonna pass.

Well an ace is an ace so it will play even if partner is short in ♦.

So how do you know your partner is short in ♣ ?

[Chamaco]

scoob, on Apr 21 2005, 01:36 PM, said:

ok, seems 3♥ is pretty popular here

would any of you change your opinion if you know for certain opener's ♥'s are only 4 long?

Not me.
I'm still a 3H bidder, with a 8 losers hand my hand is invitational regardless of pard holding 4 or 5 hearts.
I may go down but on too many layouts I can make 4 hearts.

[joker_gib]

scoob, on Apr 21 2005, 08:36 AM, said:

ok, seems 3♥ is pretty popular here

would any of you change your opinion if you know for certain opener's ♥'s are only 4 long?

When you bid 3♥ you don't know if partner has 4 or 5♥ and this hand remains an invite

Alain

[P_Marlowe]

scoob, on Apr 21 2005, 08:36 AM, said:

ok, seems 3♥ is pretty popular here

would any of you change your opinion if you know for certain opener's ♥'s are only 4 long?

Hi,

at least, this is an important information,
another one would be, how high is the
probabiliy that I have to deal with a bal.
opener.

This depends on opener options
- are there 2 suited openings available
- which NT range is included / excludes from
your precision 1C / 1D opener

I am not sure that this would change my 3H
bid, but it makes it less clear.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[scoob]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 21 2005, 09:13 AM, said:

Hi,

at least, this is an important information,
another one would be, how high is the
probabiliy that I have to deal with a bal.
opener.

This depends on opener options
- are there 2 suited openings available
- which NT range is included / excludes from
  your precision 1C / 1D opener

I am not sure that this would change my 3H
bid, but it makes it less clear.

With kind regards
Marlowe

5332 and 5422 hands only (no two suiters and no singles/voids)

[han]

Now wait a minute, are you saying that partner might have 5332 shape after rebidding 2H???


I assume that this is a typo. If it is given that partner is exactly 5422 then I would pass or bid 3H. If standard precision (any but maximal 5-5) then I would bid 3H.

[scoob]

Hannie, on Apr 21 2005, 09:54 AM, said:

Now wait a minute, are you saying that partner might have 5332 shape after rebidding 2H???


I assume that this is a typo. If it is given that partner is exactly 5422 then I would pass or bid 3H. If standard precision (any but maximal 5-5) then I would bid 3H.

no, i was referring to the only two hand types that a 1M bid might have

[awm]

A question to the 4♥ bidders:

Is there ANY hand with four hearts and 8-10 hcp where you would consider passing 2♥?

Partner's opening is limited to at most 15 hcp and presumably with a distributional max such as AKxxx AKxxx xx x, there would've been a 3♥ rebid available... it seems to me perfectly safe to pass with a hand like xx xxxx Axx KJxx... your points are poorly placed, you have nine losers, partner really needs a max with five hearts for there to be much chance at game I think. Would you guys raise to 3♥ with this hand?

[luis]

4♥ down 2 or making are good results :-)
Vulnerable I see no clear way to let pd make an intelligent decision over 3♥ so I bid 4 and wait for the result.
GLP!

[mike777]

luis, on Apr 21 2005, 02:12 PM, said:

4♥ down 2 or making are good results :-)
Vulnerable I see no clear way to let pd make an intelligent decision over 3♥ so I bid 4 and wait for the result.
GLP!

Is this not what LTC is designed to do, help in these decisions. Not perfect but....we expect P to accept invites with an aggressive attitude at IMPS, yes?

[luis]

mike777, on Apr 21 2005, 07:33 PM, said:

luis, on Apr 21 2005, 02:12 PM, said:

4♥ down 2 or making are good results :-)
Vulnerable I see no clear way to let pd make an intelligent decision over 3♥ so I bid 4 and wait for the result.
GLP!

Is this not what LTC is designed to do, help in these decisions. Not perfect but....we expect P to accept invites with an aggressive attitude at IMPS, yes?

Master Yoda would say "a good issue you raise"

With a good pd after 2♥ when you have a weak hand you either pass or bid 2♠ that's why you can use 3♣ or 3♦ as anti-splinters asking pd to go to 4♥ if he has no wasted values in that suit and as Roland said you have 2NT as a "general invitation" when you don't have those options available i believe 4♥ is better than 3♥ because I really don't want to transfer the guilt to pd in this hand just because I can't describe why I am inviting.

[mike777]

[quote name='luis' date='Apr 21 2005, 03:05 PM'] [quote name='mike777' date='Apr 21 2005, 07:33 PM'] [quote name='luis' date='Apr 21 2005, 02:12 PM'] 4[he]

With a good pd after 2[he] when you have a weak hand you either pass or bid 2[sp] that's why you can use 3[cl] or 3[di] as anti-splinters asking pd to go to 4[he] if he has no wasted values in that suit and as Roland said you have 2NT as a "general invitation" when you don't have those options available i believe 4[he] is better than 3[he] because I really don't want to transfer the guilt to pd in this hand just because I can't describe why I am inviting. [/QUOTE]


I really respect your last comment about TFR to P

Very interesting treatments, new to me, thanks. How do you bid weak hands with long clubs or D after forcing 1nt? Is 2nt general invite in NT or Hearts? If H how do you invite in NT with forcing nt?

[luis]

[quote name='mike777' date='Apr 21 2005, 08:39 PM'] [quote name='luis' date='Apr 21 2005, 03:05 PM'] [quote name='mike777' date='Apr 21 2005, 07:33 PM'] [quote name='luis' date='Apr 21 2005, 02:12 PM'] 4[he]

With a good pd after 2[he] when you have a weak hand you either pass or bid 2[sp] that's why you can use 3[cl] or 3[di] as anti-splinters asking pd to go to 4[he] if he has no wasted values in that suit and as Roland said you have 2NT as a "general invitation" when you don't have those options available i believe 4[he] is better than 3[he] because I really don't want to transfer the guilt to pd in this hand just because I can't describe why I am inviting. [/QUOTE]


I really respect your last comment about TFR to P

Very interesting treatments, new to me, thanks. How do you bid weak hands with long clubs or D after forcing 1nt? Is 2nt general invite in NT or Hearts? If H how do you invite in NT with forcing nt? [/quote]
with a weak minor you just pass 2[he] or correct to 2[sp] improving the partscore has little merit.
2NT can be either a general invitation in hearts or NT it's a partnership agreement I think. If it's up to me I prefer 2NT to show a generic INV in hearts.

[Winstonm]

It's imps, right? I think I've got to let partner in on the secret that we may have an under-strength game if he's got the right hand, say Axxxx, AKxxx, x, xx.
3H for me, too.

winstonm

[beatrix45]

3H for sure. I don't like my lack of a heart honour and my slow club cards. Plus, hands with secondary 4-4 fits and shortness opposite partners long suit often don't play well, you just don't have enough trumps to do all your business. At matchpoints, if I wanted to shoot with this hand, I'd rather pass than bid 4H.

[civill]

inquiry, on Apr 20 2005, 11:27 PM, said:

4!h... we are vul, partner will not think i am this good for 3!h

3♥ at least.
The 3♣ game try is better,but for directly game in 4♥,cross-ruffing is a good play.

[Al_U_Card]

Seems like a fix may be needed. Altho I dont play Precision, my agreement is that in that sequence a bid of a minor at the 3 level agrees hearts and is either a HSGT or a LSGT (depending on pard's pref.) . When he likes his hand he goes to game or makes some other bid. (btw it can never be spade support)

[Double !]

at imps = 3♥

at mp? probably pass and (hopefully) take a plus score. After all, partner didn't rebid 3♥ to show near max 5-5 or better. Wish the KJ of clubs were the ace instead. Then would risk a raise.