[Winstonm]

Joe_Old, on 2017-June-11, 15:24, said:

The double is control showing and takeout. You have 6♣, partner has 4-5♣, responder has 2-3♣. That doesn't leave any, and opener's double therefore tells responder that he has first round control (almost certainly a void).

Opener has zero interest in defending a ♣ contract. He has 10-13 major suit cards (not necessarily balanced) and visions of slam. Opener is asking responder to help set the strain and level of their major suit contract.

Joe, I think you are looking at the wrong bid. Unless it is a specialized bid, 3NT should show a lot of wasted values in opps suits, clubs and diamonds, and quite likely no 4-card heart suit so what is left? 3343 or maybe 3352, maybe something like Jxx, AQx, QJ10x, QJx? If so, what is opener trying to get partner to takeout to?

[GrahamJson]

Winstonm, on 2017-June-11, 21:22, said:

Joe, I think you are looking at the wrong bid. Unless it is a specialized bid, 3NT should show a lot of wasted values in opps suits, clubs and diamonds, and quite likely no 4-card heart suit so what is left? 3343 or maybe 3352, maybe something like Jxx, AQx, QJ10x, QJx? If so, what is opener trying to get partner to takeout to?

Completely agree. If the 3NT bidder can deduce that his partner is void why is it necessary to double to confirm it? If he can't be certain of the void then why should he not assume that the double is for penalties, or at least warning partner off from competing further.

We've all seen players bidding UNT with 54 distribution, or supporting on hands when it was unwise. How do you punish them if it assumed that their bidding is perfect to such an extent that even a double at the five level is for take out?

Finally, if the double were for takeout presumably it would show something like AKxxxx AQxxxx x void, in which case wouldn't he just bid 5H rather than risking his partner misunderstanding the double?

[sakuragi]

here is the full hand


For sake of OP personal safety, please be kind towards various bids.

[Winstonm]

sakuragi, on 2017-June-12, 06:24, said:

here is the full hand


For sake of OP personal safety, please be kind towards various bids.

The East bid is either pass (my choice) or double (my second choice). Kind of a typical auction for this level of experience, IMO.

[el mister]

Don't really get 5♣ there - is he thinking that 5♣X down a few still beats a ♥ slam, or is it just a misjudgement? Guess it depends on your agreements as to what U2NT looks like.

[steve2005]

Nabooba, on 2017-June-11, 20:36, said:

"I'm waiting for the Poster to reveal the other hands to see if the 6♣ sacrifice is worthwhile."
This is a very amusing post. The poster has a great sense of humour.

On this hand 5 or 6♣ could be making, 5 or 6 of a major could be making. Possibly nobody at the table knows.

Using 5♣XX as penalty makes no sense here as it is unlikely if opponents pull you can defeat them more than you get for 5♣X. So really at this level of play XX is just poker upping the ante, as I doubt the partnership has an agreement on this sort of sequence.