[paulg]

Scoring: IMP

---

You hold this hand at IMPs and the auction, with no competition, goes:

1[sp] [space] 2[di]
2[he] [space] 3[cl]
?

What do you bid now?

At our match last night there were two schools of thought, luckily for us they were represented by our opposing North and South. One bids 3♦ to deny 6 spades, 5 hearts and a club stop; the other bids 3♠ to deny 5 hearts, a diamond holding and a club stop.

Clearly any agreement is better than none, but is there a preference?

Paul

[inquiry]

I bid 3♥ here. I don't mind bidding a 2 card diamond suit on this auction, but I do mind bidding it if it is xx.

[Chamaco]

IMO 3D is the most economical and practical bid.
It show tolerance for D, and more or less "nothing to say".

I think 3H should show 55. Here the suit is a strong 4 bagger, but the hand 5422 makes me lean towards making the bid best suited to land in NT.

[P_Marlowe]

I reply 3S.

There exists a 3rd school, who would
reply 3H, because, for them, 3S would
show 6.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[ochinko]

I am not biiding 3♦ with 9x. What's wrong with 3♥? Ok, I have only four of them but twice as many points than in spades. Playing with 4:3 hearts is more appealing than 4:2 diamonds.

Petko

[joker_gib]

3♦ = 3 cards
3♥ = 5 cards
3 NT = ♣ stopper

So I have to bid 3♠ : sort of waiting bid

Alain

[FrancesHinden]

Here I bid 3D. As you say, it's just a matter of what partner expects you to do with the hand where you have nothing new to say.


Take the auction
1D - 1H - 1S - 2C

As I rebid 1NT on all balanced hands over 1H, I have already shown either 5 diamonds and 4 spades or a 4144. A 4144 would bid 2NT over 2C. So now 2D shows a 6th diamond, 2S shows a 5th spade, 2NT shows a club stop, 3C shows extra values without a stop (I don't play 4SF as game forcing) and 2H is anything left. I'd bid 2H on KQxx Q AKxxx xxx.

However, if I played a method where 1D - 1H - 1S may still be balanced, then 1D - 1H - 1S - 2C - 2D merely shows a 5th diamond.

[whereagles]

3D or 3S, depending on what I had for dinner... lol.

[flytoox]

I vote for 3D. After establishing a minor "fit", our priority is to look for 3N. I am not too worried about pd bidding 5/6D. However, if I rebid 3H/3S and get raised to 4H/S, I am not happy.

Actually, from the bidding, pd almost surely has 6 diamonds.

[Chamaco]

joker_gib, on Apr 19 2005, 01:20 PM, said:

3♦ = 3 cards
3♥ = 5 cards
3 NT = ♣ stopper

So I have to bid 3♠ : sort of waiting bid 

Alain

Bidding 3S as a "tempo bid" loses a lot of space.

I think in such a sequence there is a point in using 1st step as "nothing to say", not promising/denying anything.

If pard does not expect anything in diamond, he can now bid:
-3H = offer a moysian in Hearts or asking to bid 4D if I do have diamonds
-3S = offer a 52 fit in spades or asking to bid 4D if I do have diamonds
-3NT = showing that he indeed had a stopper but wanted to verify if I had support for diamonds; in that case, if I do have D support I'll bid 4D
- and so forth....

[Walddk]

3♦, no problem for me. It doesn't promise support, it's merely "preference". The problem would have been much harder after

1♠ - 2♣
2♥ - 3♦

Now you have to rebid one of your majors. With the actual hand it's obviously best to huddle followed by 3♦, 3♥ or 3♠, but I don't think that's allowed. Well, it is as long as partner doesn't take advantage of the UI.

Petko says that 3♦ may get us to a 4-2 fit. Never in a million years opposite a partner who knows what he is doing.

Roland

[Winstonm]

I feel that in this difficult auction the "room-saving" bid of 3D has more merit. It seems obvious that partner is not comfortable with placing the contract and more information is needed - by both players.

Three diamonds allows partner to bid:

3H on A, Q10x, AKxxxx, xxx to suggest the 4/3
3S with Ax, Qx, AKxxxx, xxx to suggest the 5/2
3N with Ax, xx, AQJxxx, Qxx to suggest a weak club holding
4D with Ax, xx, AKQxxx, Kxx to suggest a slam

Although I'd prefer Qx to bid 3D, partner should not get too excited with this delayed support as he must realize that it may be almost forced. I feel it is much more important to retain the meaning of 3S to show 6/4 and 3H as 5/5 than to have 3D mean anything more than xx.

winstonm

[joker_gib]

Chamaco, on Apr 19 2005, 09:12 AM, said:

joker_gib, on Apr 19 2005, 01:20 PM, said:

3♦ = 3 cards
3♥ = 5 cards
3 NT = ♣ stopper

So I have to bid 3♠ : sort of waiting bid 

Alain

Bidding 3S as a "tempo bid" loses a lot of space.

I think in such a sequence there is a point in using 1st step as "nothing to say", not promising/denying anything.

If pard does not expect anything in diamond, he can now bid:
-3H = offer a moysian in Hearts or asking to bid 4D if I do have diamonds
-3S = offer a 52 fit in spades or asking to bid 4D if I do have diamonds
-3NT = showing that he indeed had a stopper but wanted to verify if I had support for diamonds; in that case, if I do have D support I'll bid 4D
- and so forth....

I totally agree and will discuss that with my partner.

It is clear that it's better to use the more economical bid to show "nothing to say" !



Alain

[Walddk]

Winstonm, on Apr 19 2005, 09:16 AM, said:

Although I'd prefer Qx to bid 3D, partner should not get too excited with this delayed support

winstonm

I agree with everything else you are saying Winston, but it's wrong to use the word "support" in this context. 3♦ does not promise support.

Roland

[Winstonm]

Point taken, Roland. But it cannot be a preference, either, as the club bid is artificial. Maybe FORCED is the correct term?

Harder still....what do you bid with: KJ942, AKJ4, 8, 643 in the same auction?

WinstonM

[Walddk]

Winstonm, on Apr 19 2005, 09:23 AM, said:

Point taken, Roland. But it cannot be a preference, either, as the club bid is artificial. Maybe FORCED is the correct term?

Harder still....what do you bid with: KJ942, AKJ4, 8, 643 in the same auction?

WinstonM

Toss a coin and bid 3MA.

Roland

[Chamaco]

What about:
1S:2C
2H:3D
?

You hold:
KJ942, AKJ4, 8, 643

------------------------------------

Perhaps this highlights the need to use for responder's 2nd round rebid NEXT STEP as a sort of Bourke Relay, rather than space-wasting 3m as 4sf.

1S:2C
2H:?

Here 2S does not promise /deny spades but is just a relay, "a la 4th suit forcing" but saving space.
2NT might do the job but I hate wrongsiding the contract.
I much prefer using 2NT for one of the following options:
a. natural, showing NT-oriented hand
b. artificial, showing REAL spades. In this case NT-oriented hand would bid 2S, forcing, and rebid later 3NT.

This applies only if 2/1 is Game Force thought.

[inquiry]

Winstonm, on Apr 19 2005, 10:16 AM, said:

I feel that in this difficult auction the "room-saving" bid of 3D has more merit. It seems obvious that partner is not comfortable with placing the contract and more information is needed - by both players.

Three diamonds allows partner to bid:

3H on A, Q10x, AKxxxx, xxx to suggest the 4/3
3S with Ax, Qx, AKxxxx, xxx to suggest the 5/2
3N with Ax, xx, AQJxxx, Qxx to suggest a weak club holding
4D with Ax, xx, AKQxxx, Kxx to suggest a slam

Although I'd prefer Qx to bid 3D, partner should not get too excited with this delayed support as he must realize that it may be almost forced. I feel it is much more important to retain the meaning of 3S to show 6/4 and 3H as 5/5 than to have 3D mean anything more than xx.

winstonm

What do you bid over 3♣.

Now tell me, it will be 3♦ because you still reserve 3♥ for five card suit and 3♠ for six card one... so partner will allow you to have one diamond.... after all you are under pressure (yes, many of you will say this).

---

Your hand is HEARTS (not diamonds). Let's look at winstonm hands after the 3♥ rebid...

A, Q10x, AKxxxx, xxx instead of 3H to suggest a 4/3, bid 4H to play a 4-3 or 5-3. If your partner is on only a four card heart suit, it is a STRONG one, which you will need to play the 4-3 fit. After a 3♦ raise, 5♦ thoughts begin to dance in partners mind (not to mention possible 6♦).

Ax, Qx, AKxxxx, xxx, still bid 3♠ to suggest a potential playing spot in a 5-2 fit, just as he did, over the 3♦ bid.

Ax, xx, AQJxxx, Qxx to suggest a weak club holding, still tries 3NT over 3♥, and will land in 4♠ now (not 5♦ when opener pulls. If the bidding goes, 3D-3N-what will opener do but bid 4D?

Ax, xx, AKQxxx, Kxx nothing prevents a 4D (forcing after 4th suit) even if partner rebids 3♥. A real 5-5 partner will rebid 4H over this.

I don't see a big downside myself to showing where you live (heart values).

Ben

[Winstonm]

I agree with a lot of your assessment, Ben, but I prefer not to alter my bidding of my hand pattern unless forced to. With KJ9xx, AKJx, x, xxx I am forced to. With this I will bid 3H as the least of evils.

Winstonm

[pclayton]

3♦ - economical.

3♣ uses space that 2N doesn't, so it should be pretty defined. 2♣ then 3♦ by opener uses even more space, so it should be even more defined; probably a 5-6. With a 4-6, stall with 2N.

This post has been edited by pclayton: 2005-April-19, 11:41