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Revision Precision Building a Body of Knowledge Around Revision

#1 User is offline   1Wishbone1 

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Posted 2017-March-21, 10:21

Hello everyone --

Since the early seventies, I've kept notes on a "Diamond Positive" Precision. Goren had a section on it in his Precision book and there are many points in support of a System based on the idea. John Montgomery codified a System and is it ever complete! However, its completeness is its undoing. I gather from comments on Revision through the years that many look at it admiringly and then think, "Um, hmm...Yep...Nice. Can you imagine trying to learn all those sequences? YUCK!!! Say...Did you read about the newest solution to that 2/1 problem we talked about last week...?"

First Note: Montgomery is correct. If you are to LEARN a sequence with a Partner, you gotta LEARN the Sequences. I have organized Football Offenses and I know first hand that placing all of the Offensive Plays the Team will use into a 2 Color, 2 Number System, f'rinstance, can be done. Getting a High School Ath-a-leet to learn said System is not easy. It has to be done but there also has to be some Understanding of what Football is all about...

No one, however, is going to sit down at a table, cold with a new Partner and ask, "Whadd'ya play?" and get, "Oh...Standard Revision, I guess". "ME TOO!!! WOW!"

The Educator Spence Rogers usta' say that you had to repeat a Fact 26 times before you could move that Fact into Long Term Memory (or was it 28?). Anyway, for a while it was possible to sit down and play a Basic Precision and at least have some fun. Tournaments have been won with a only a few days preparation.

So, I ask: Is there any interest in providing an Organization Summary as found in almost any Precision book for Revision Precision?

"The One Club Bid is based on 16+ HCP, unbalanced (Balanced 16 - 18 opens 1 NT). It announces a strong hand. The Partnership is looking to find a Trump Suit quickly and at a low Bidding Level. The following are NATURAL and NON-FORCING Responses..."

Boom!: The reader can begin to build a framework in her head that gives an organization and a reason for the upcoming sequences. "1 Heart - 1 NT" Forcing is a common sequence. Montgomery explains it well. "OH! I know that!" It's easier if you don't have to dig into the deep forest to find something that you already know.

Any interest here?

Thanx,

CW
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#2 User is online   nige1 

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Posted 2017-March-21, 13:20

Yes please. An interesting idea. A concern might be that lumping positives into a 1 response would over-expose the method to damaging interference by opponents. But we should postpone criticism until we know more about its merits.
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#3 User is offline   1Wishbone1 

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Posted 2017-March-21, 15:33

http://www.bridgewithdan.com/systems/

Scroll down the page 'til you get to Revision Precision.

CW

PS: Nige1: Have a look at your concerns with "Overloading" the 1 D Positive. It's not a matter of "Knock down the Responses by 3 HCPs and everything else is Bid 1 D". It is elegant. That much comes through!
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#4 User is offline   phoenix214 

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Posted 2017-March-22, 15:24

I have played the system for a while:
In summary, it has some nice points, although there are quite a few things I would want to swap around, and nowadays I do not find as attractive anymore, sadly as it is.
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#5 User is offline   1Wishbone1 

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Posted 2017-March-22, 21:18

 phoenix214, on 2017-March-22, 15:24, said:

I have played the system for a while:
In summary, it has some nice points, although there are quite a few things I would want to swap around, and nowadays I do not find as attractive anymore, sadly as it is.


Thank you phoenix214!

1. Could you expand on your points, please? Did you feel you had an advantage playing Revision? How were you able to "see" the Contracts better? Etc.

2. As I have looked at this as a "Project", my concern was that little would get accomplished since everyone would want changes. I wouldn't really be surprised either. Revision is a wonderful tool to see into the mind of one man. Emory Bellard comes to mind here. Bellard was a Genius in American Football but he was a singular genius nonetheless. There might be exactly 18 slots for 18 hand types in a particular section of the Revision System. That's nice to know, I suppose. Sontag wrote in his Precision book that "This sequence has never come up but we believe that it is important that we carry this sequence". YIKES! Don't book my flight to the next Bermuda Bowl just yet.

3, Have System Mappings caught up to Precision? 2/1? Maybe I need to find another hobby...

Thanx,

CW
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#6 User is offline   phoenix214 

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Posted 2017-March-23, 09:11

Well mostly the thing I dislike is
A) F1 over 1M openings, nowadays I like to play 1N as passable, in that place of the system in does not change much, in my opinion.
B) 1D bal range as 12-15. One of the bigger + of playing strong club, is the ability to open light, so not being able to open light is a bit of a downside. If you can control your urge to open 11 counts, although still having a 4p NT range is not cool.

So those were my main dislikes about it.
As for having a standartized Revision, the problem is how to compress things, as it has quite a bit ununsual sequences, although I think, that would not be that big of a problem
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#7 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2017-March-25, 06:38

I once was interested in a 1 positive response in a Strong Club System. I also considered The American Forcing Minor System by Lutz & Fink, 1995. No one was interested in these approaches for many years in my area. I have studied Revision Club, but it doesn't fit my criteria and/or preferences. It is an interesting read before the discussion of bidding sequences.Posted Image

For 10 years I played a relay system, Ultra Club Relay where we transferred into 4-cd majors with a positive response. That took lots of memory work and practice, but it was very good for one partnership. Since then my favorite bidding system has slowly evolved into Mosca .

About 15 years ago I started playing The Millennium Club by Poe, 2002. I have refined this system with some Fantunes features and now play Mosca Club with 4 different partners.

We play a15+ hcp 1 with transfer negatives at the1-level and transfer positives at the 2-level. Major suit hands with 15-19 hcp are NOT included in 1 and neither are 15-19 hcp oriented hands. Thus, a 1 opening is one of 3 types of hands: (1) Balanced and 15+ hcp, (2) club's primary and 15+ hcp, and (3) all strong hands of 4-losers or less. We have added Canape from a major into a longer minor suit. This is a fun system to play especially at match point pairs.

The system has been designed so that interference by the opponents is rarely a problem.
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded)(PM me for notes)

Played a Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT with Keri Invites and Intermediate 2 bids (10-14), & 15+ 1 opener with transfer negatives @ 1-level & transfer positives @ the 2- and 3-levels. Canape after opening 1 or 1 (into a minor suit only). Played Naturelle in 2018. 2019 playing Canapé Club: 1 promises 4+ and 10+ hcp and is forcing 1 round (after George Coffin's NBC: Natural Big Club).

Playing Transfer Precision with Steve Moese, 2019. Studying Blastorscape for 2020. Santa Fe Precision published 8/21/19.
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