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What is the Re-bid here? Bidding

#1 User is offline   A2003 

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Posted 2017-March-11, 15:57

Playing standard bridge

What is the bid here now?
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-March-11, 16:10

3c
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#3 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2017-March-11, 16:18

Helene is right - this is the classic "death hand"
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#4 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-March-11, 17:18

Agree with 3C. What other option is there?

I would presume universal agreement - the thing there might not be agreement on is what to do over 3NT by partner after you bid 3C
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-March-11, 18:35

View PostKaitlyn S, on 2017-March-11, 17:18, said:

the thing there might not be agreement on is what to do over 3NT by partner after you bid 3C

Unanimous agreements are of course rare, but pass after 3NT is pretty clear IMO.
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#6 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2017-March-11, 19:12

View PostKaitlyn S, on 2017-March-11, 17:18, said:

Agree with 3C. What other option is there?

I would presume universal agreement - the thing there might not be agreement on is what to do over 3NT by partner after you bid 3C


Actually many options. You can play a 2NT gadget which many play, you can play Gazilli or your 3C bid can even be a totally artificial bid over which 3D asks. To ask "What other option is there?" is a very shortsighted view. An obvious pass after a 3NT bid by the way.
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#7 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2017-March-12, 01:53

I remember Fred's rule about jump shifts control the auction. This being the case, 3NT is a strong message that 3NT is the right place to play, so pass is right. Over 3D and 3H I can bid 3S, and 4D over 4C, and I've described my hand well.
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#8 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2017-March-12, 14:07

I can understand 3c but another option is risk a natural 2c bid here. AS others have stated this is the well known "BW death hand"
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#9 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2017-March-12, 14:21

Prefer 2 forcing one round, K-S style, R must rebid major with 5+, other suits natch, 2N->3 to get out at the 3 level. Opener in this case, with a rock crusher, would refuse the relay and bid 3S or 3N.
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#10 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2017-March-12, 23:04

There is one other well-known option no one has mentioned: 2H. If partner raises hearts, that means he has 5 spades (with 44, he'd have bid 1H, not 1S), so you just correct to spades and partner should be able to figure it out.

If he bids 2S, great - raise to 4. If he bids 2NT (four spades, weakness), then you can either raise to 3NT and hope your 2H bid fetches a club lead or else rebid 3C. If partner bids 3C, you can try 5C. And so on.

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#11 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-March-13, 00:15

View PostFlem72, on 2017-March-12, 14:21, said:

Prefer 2 forcing one round, K-S style, R must rebid major with 5+, other suits natch, 2N->3 to get out at the 3 level. Opener in this case, with a rock crusher, would refuse the relay and bid 3S or 3N.

One will have to change the whole system if one says that 2C is Forcing for for one round.
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#12 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-March-13, 00:27

This is a hand which depicts the disadvantage of playing weak twos.However,one has to abide by it.I shall ask one question here.What would be the rebid if the hand was AQX,A,AKJxxx, xxx.Big problem now! I,therefore,would prefer to rebid 3 Spade on the given holding reserving the 3C bid for Axx,x,AKJxxx,AQx.The spade support is good enough for bidding 3S..
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#13 User is offline   Caitlynne 

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Posted 2017-March-13, 08:27

There is no truly descriptive bid, just 4 seriously flawed choices:

3D - with 18 HCP, you are a little heavy for this. The fact that this bid fails to reveal your excellent 3 card support for partner's major suit is also a huge drawback.

3S - in a way this is a slight underbid, but its huge flaw is that it absolutely positively guarantees 4 card spade support. AKQ tripleton is not good enough, let alone AQx.

2C - very much an underbid, but rarely passed, so a reasonable manufactured gamble. If partner preferences to 2D, you can try 3S next. If partner bids something more descriptively helpful (e.g., 2S or 2NT) you have an easy time of it.

3C - the manufactured bid for those with no stomach for 2C. But this is an absolute 100% game force and you really don't have enough for that either, although you are close.

My guess is that most will choose 3C as the least problematic of the bunch.

(A better solution is to not be playing standard!)
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#14 User is offline   july1982xx 

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Posted 2017-March-13, 10:31

3D is the best bid here showing partner lenght in diamonds good hand around (17)18-19(20) HCP .
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#15 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-March-13, 10:46

View Postjuly1982xx, on 2017-March-13, 10:31, said:

3D is the best bid here showing partner lenght in diamonds good hand around (17)18-19(20) HCP .


3D is also non-forcing in all standard methods that I am aware of. You can easily miss a 4S contract when partner holds a minimum response and good 5-card spade suit.

I would bid 3C unless playing with my regular partner (she would never pass a 2C bid).
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#16 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-March-13, 17:56

I'm a 3 C bidder with this hand also. Just too good for 3 D.

If playing updated K/S, then a 2 C bid would be proper. It shows a hand with reversing values, is forcing, and guarantees a rebid.
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#17 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2017-March-13, 20:59

View PostCaitlynne, on 2017-March-13, 08:27, said:

There is no truly descriptive bid, just 4 seriously flawed choices:

3D - with 18 HCP, you are a little heavy for this. The fact that this bid fails to reveal your excellent 3 card support for partner's major suit is also a huge drawback.

3S - in a way this is a slight underbid, but its huge flaw is that it absolutely positively guarantees 4 card spade support. AKQ tripleton is not good enough, let alone AQx.

2C - very much an underbid, but rarely passed, so a reasonable manufactured gamble. If partner preferences to 2D, you can try 3S next. If partner bids something more descriptively helpful (e.g., 2S or 2NT) you have an easy time of it.

3C - the manufactured bid for those with no stomach for 2C. But this is an absolute 100% game force and you really don't have enough for that either, although you are close.

My guess is that most will choose 3C as the least problematic of the bunch.

(A better solution is to not be playing standard!)


I really agree with this analysis. Not playing standard may not be a solution in itself,though. Playing Precision, this hand is an easy 1 opener.. But change A to 2 and we Precisionistas have the death hand problem--just too good for a single raise (given the crap we open on), don't want to jump raise spades without four (and hides the diamonds worse than in standard), while 3 has the same risk of missing the possible 5-3 spade fit.The advantage is that using a 2NT gadget is less costly than in standard (how often do we want to rebid a natural 2NT?)--but the partnership must still discuss and practice the sequences.
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#18 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-March-14, 02:28

View PostA2003, on 2017-March-11, 15:57, said:

What is the bid here now?

2, also with

AQx
-----
AKJxxxx
Axx,

for the reasons miamijd gave.
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#19 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2017-March-14, 04:29

I really think 2H is poor here, since partner will count heart values as positive should he have slam interest, when in reality heart values are not wanted.
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#20 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-March-14, 05:04

View Postmr1303, on 2017-March-14, 04:29, said:

I really think 2H is poor here, since partner will count heart values as positive should he have slam interest, when in reality heart values are not wanted.

Well, 1-1; 3-4 is a draw by stalemate.
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