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Trick Question And this did happen last night

#1 User is offline   weejonnie 

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Posted 2017-March-08, 05:14

You are called at the end of play of a board.

North pulled out the 1 card from the bidding slot - but only East noticed.
East, Dealer, bid 1
South passes
West Passes
North bids 2NT - alerted as showing the majors
East Passes
South bids 2 (not alerted)
West passes
North bids 2 - which is the final contract
Bidding sequence after 2NT not shown - final contract 2 Spades by North


FWIW the results on the hand are:-
2 N Making and +1
3NT E -2 and Making
3* by South -1
2NT E +2
4 S -1 and -2
3 N -1
2 N making (this table)
4 W Making.

I didn't think about polling if there was UI as it was unlikely that the same bidding sequence would have been followed.
No matter how well you know the laws, there is always something that you'll forget. That is why we have a book.
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
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#2 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2017-March-08, 05:20

So ... who called and what is their concern? Offhand I don't see anything that needs dealing with at this point.

More specifically, the insufficient bid was accepted by West and it doesn't look like South used UI even if they saw the 2NT bid (but they didn't so this point is moot).
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#3 User is offline   weejonnie 

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Posted 2017-March-08, 06:22

View Postsfi, on 2017-March-08, 05:20, said:

So ... who called and what is their concern? Offhand I don't see anything that needs dealing with at this point.

More specifically, the insufficient bid was accepted by West and it doesn't look like South used UI even if they saw the 2NT bid (but they didn't so this point is moot).

I assume you mean if South saw the 1 call...

That is why it is a trick question. We had an opening call out of turn that wasn't recognised as such (in EBU land the call is made when the bidding card is removed from the box with apparent intent): a call of 1 that was made as dealer rather than accepting the call out of turn (otherwise it would have been an insufficient bid), a genuine insufficient bid (accepted as having been called over) and UI from a failure to alert (which is irrelevant as there is no call over 2 that is demonstrably suggested by the UI).

So all I could do was to rule: result stands and remind players that if attention is drawn to an irregularity then the director should be summoned at once.
No matter how well you know the laws, there is always something that you'll forget. That is why we have a book.
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
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#4 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2017-March-08, 07:07

View Postweejonnie, on 2017-March-08, 06:22, said:

I assume you mean if South saw the 1 call...

That is why it is a trick question. We had an opening call out of turn that wasn't recognised as such (in EBU land the call is made when the bidding card is removed from the box with apparent intent): a call of 1 that was made as dealer rather than accepting the call out of turn (otherwise it would have been an insufficient bid), a genuine insufficient bid (accepted as having been called over) and UI from a failure to alert (which is irrelevant as there is no call over 2 that is demonstrably suggested by the UI).

So all I could do was to rule: result stands and remind players that if attention is drawn to an irregularity then the director should be summoned at once.


Yes - 1S rather than 2NT. Here the call isn't made until place on the table (or close enough to look like the bid was made). The situation as you described would merely provide UI to South. But as you say, there doesn't seem to be anything to be done now except tell them all you are posting it on the internet for humour value.
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#5 User is offline   pran 

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Posted 2017-March-08, 07:35

Whatever irregularity has occurred here (i.e. the 1 bid card pulled and replaced, the insufficient 2 bid) has been accepted by the proper player and deserves no action by the Director.

And as far as I can understand no question about UI has been raised so i see no reason for any rectification whatsoever.
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