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silly - normal - excellent should the strong hand or the hand with shape enter?

Poll: now or (possibly) never? (42 member(s) have cast votes)

pass or 2 spades

  1. pass (37 votes [88.10%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 88.10%

  2. 2 spades (5 votes [11.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.90%

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#1 User is offline   luckyloser 

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Posted 2017-February-06, 05:26

A98765
9876
5
K5

RHO opens 2 (normal weak two in ). It is Matchpoints, You are green they red. Should you stick in a bid or await developments?
Would you consider a 2bid as silly, normal or excellent?
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#2 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-February-06, 06:38

View Postluckyloser, on 2017-February-06, 05:26, said:

A98765
9876
5
K5

RHO opens 2 (normal weak two in ). It is Matchpoints, You are green they red. Should you stick in a bid or await developments?
Would you consider a 2bid as silly, normal or excellent?


If opponents'are pre-empting, we should aim to bid constructively rather than making a pre-emptive noise. This hand is not a constructive 2 bid.
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#3 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2017-February-06, 07:51

there are so many bad things that can happen if we bid 2s it is scary.
1. how do we ever shut partner up if they have a great hand.
2. we might end up missing a great heart fit to play an iffy spade fit.
3. do we really want to encourage a spade lead if the opps get to 3n?
4. not vulnerable does not mean invulnerable.

it is not just the above but honestly if lho makes preemptive noise how high would u be willing to bid if partner passes? I would back in with 3/4 spades over 3/4 diamonds and never have a worry about partner going insane because they expect me to "have something". P is there to help protect us so let them do their job and not take actions merely because the pass card looks worn and disease covered. The range of a 2s bid becomes so huge, if you bid now with hands like this, that there is no sanity left and a tiny preempt completely maesses with your partnership bidding.
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#4 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-February-06, 12:53

Silly. LHO might bid 3NT and partner could double thinking that LHO is psyching.
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#5 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2017-February-06, 19:59

The problem with bidding 2 here is that the hands where we make game we end up in at least 6, if not 7.
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#6 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2017-February-06, 21:00

Seriously??
--Ben--

#7 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2017-February-06, 21:23

Ben!!!!!!
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
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#8 User is offline   mlbridge 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 03:37

Since this hand is not worthy of a 2 spades opening in any seat, not sure why one would want to overcall 2 spades. Especially since you have a 4 card heart suit.
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#9 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 04:19

My question is what would one bid if RHO had passed.?Do the same now and PASS.! This hand is certainly not worth over calling at 2 level.
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#10 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 05:14

View PostTylerE, on 2017-February-06, 19:59, said:

The problem with bidding 2 here is that the hands where we make game we end up in at least 6, if not 7.

Why would we end up in 6 if partner holds Kxxx x,xxx Axxxx?
Give partner another ace and we do have slam, hard to reach I admit.
As long as we have a spade fit I am not worried should partner bid slam on his own, unless partner is a beginner at this game.
But then, I am always worried until dummy comes down. :P

My judgement tells me that bidding 2 is surely a long term winner as long as we have a major suit fit, even though partner may expect another king in my hand.
And chances are we do have a fit.
I wonder what the passers will do when next hand raises diamonds maybe to the 4 or 5 level. .
It is matchpoints and passing at these colors 2 is more risky than bidding 2.

Rainer Herrmann
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#11 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 05:19

View Postmlbridge, on 2017-February-07, 03:37, said:

Since this hand is not worthy of a 2 spades opening in any seat, not sure why one would want to overcall 2 spades. Especially since you have a 4 card heart suit.

Few good players would pass at these colors, certainly not in third seat favorable.
You are playing Bridge espoused 50 years ago.

Rainer Herrmann
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#12 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 06:12

View Postgszes, on 2017-February-06, 07:51, said:

there are so many bad things that can happen if we bid 2s it is scary.
1. how do we ever shut partner up if they have a great hand.
2. we might end up missing a great heart fit to play an iffy spade fit.
3. do we really want to encourage a spade lead if the opps get to 3n?
4. not vulnerable does not mean invulnerable.

Reminds me of the person, who stays in bed for fear of getting overrun by a bus.
It happens.

Rainer Herrmann
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#13 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 06:20

View Postrhm, on 2017-February-07, 05:14, said:

My judgement tells me that bidding 2 is surely a long term winner as long as we have a major suit fit, even though partner may expect another king in my hand.
And chances are we do have a fit.
I wonder what the passers will do when next hand raises diamonds maybe to the 4 or 5 level. .
It is matchpoints and passing at these colors 2 is more risky than bidding 2.


The passers are less likely to find partner with a major suit fit?
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#14 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 06:48

View Postnullve, on 2017-February-07, 06:20, said:

The passers are less likely to find partner with a major suit fit?

First of all 2 might get passed out. LHO is not obliged to raise.
Of course should LHO raise to whatever level your chances having a fit increased.
This does not mean it is safer to come in at a high level.
And should your partner have a broken heart suit, say x KJxxx xxx Axxx, I wonder how you will proceed over diamond raises.
Delayed spade bids will not improve your chances finding hearts.
Of course if you reopen with a double partner might have 3 spades and responds in clubs.
The bidding might go (2) pass (4) pass pass 4 (DBL).
Good luck!

Rainer Herrmann
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#15 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 07:14

I am not worried about missing the heart suit unless maybe if LHO bids 5 but in that case pass won't help find our heart fit either.

Anyway, this hand is nowhere near strong enough. Give me another ace and I would bid. Give me another king and we can discuss it. Give me another queen and I wouldn't but probably some sane people would.
... I am not at all keen on arriving at the 4 level with no idea of where our fit(s) might be. --- Zelandakh
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#16 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 09:24

View Postluckyloser, on 2017-February-06, 05:26, said:

A98765
9876
5
K5

RHO opens 2 (normal weak two in ). It is Matchpoints, You are green they red. Should you stick in a bid or await developments?
Would you consider a 2bid as silly, normal or excellent?

A 2S bid is not silly but it is not normal either!Someone who wants to fool his partner may bid 2S.It is a NASTY bid.
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#17 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 09:52

View Postrhm, on 2017-February-07, 05:19, said:

Few good players would pass at these colors, certainly not in third seat favorable.
You are playing Bridge espoused 50 years ago.

Rainer Herrmann

Yes!And there are 18 others (till now) who are doing the same.95% are are still playing in 1967 ,HAHA!
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#18 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 10:20

I think Rainer is discussing whether they would *open* this hand 3rd favourable, not whether they would overcall a 2 preempt - probably because you said you would pass it.

My only question, pass-pass to me is whether to bid 2 or 3 spades.

After pass-2, I am much more concerned. Partner with a good fit will hang me, partner without a good fit will be putting down dummy in 2x. Yes, that could score well; it's hard when both sides preempt the strong hand, never mind one of them. But I would think that I would need to have agreements about bidding after passed-hand, preempt that I do not have to bid here, as partner will take me for a *good* opener.
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#19 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 11:30

View Postmycroft, on 2017-February-07, 10:20, said:

I think Rainer is discussing whether they would *open* this hand 3rd favourable, not whether they would overcall a 2 preempt - probably because you said you would pass it.

My only question, pass-pass to me is whether to bid 2 or 3 spades.

After pass-2, I am much more concerned. Partner with a good fit will hang me, partner without a good fit will be putting down dummy in 2x. Yes, that could score well; it's hard when both sides preempt the strong hand, never mind one of them. But I would think that I would need to have agreements about bidding after passed-hand, preempt that I do not have to bid here, as partner will take me for a *good* opener.

Sorry, given the conditions, white against red at matchpoints, I would overcall 2.
I am not claiming the overcall could not backfire, but I strongly believe it will gain more often than it will loose.
The hand has a high ODR ratio.

Rainer Herrmann
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#20 User is online   miamijd 

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Posted 2017-February-07, 13:59

I'll assume RHO was in first seat, because if he was in second seat you have an easy pass, and if he was in third seat, either his partner or yours needs some glasses.

It's closer than it looks, because you are short in diamonds, but let's think about this for a minute.

If you pass, the only really bad thing that could happen is that LHO gets to play 2D. That is not apt to be good for our side. Well, we have 7 HCP, and the weak two-bidder also has about 7. So there are 28 for the other two hands. If you pass, chances of this hand getting passed out are very small indeed. Someone is going to bid. If that someone is partner, then you can respond accordingly.

If you pass and RHO bids 3D, passed back to you, I think I would try 3S white v red. Partner will know what's up from your failure to overcall 2S.

So yes, I'd pass, but if my hearts were Qxxx, I'd bid 2S.

Cheers,
Mike
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