[sfi]

brigimon 6 - 4 sfi

http://webutil.bridg...484847678&u=sfi

sfi 6 - 4 smerriman

http://webutil.bridg...484854162&u=sfi

eblenner 5.5 - 4.5 sfi

http://webutil.bridg...484854791&u=sfi

[frank0]

All the scores in red are temporary and will be changed according to the rule. It's filled in that way now so I can track the number of completed boards.

[m1cha]

olegru, on 2017-January-20, 08:09, said:

Group 2
Did player Verify accepted challenges from anybody?

Yes, here. Playing soon ...

[smerriman]

frank0, on 2017-January-20, 18:06, said:

All the scores in red are temporary and will be changed according to the rule. It's filled in that way now so I can track the number of completed boards.

If you missed the earlier post, bobhew32 has also withdrawn.

[el mister]

Results for me (just to put them in one place, edited to include all games)
Lost v Frank0 1.5 : 8.5
Lost v Gordontd 4.5 : 5.5
Lost v ovnclymz 3 : 7
Lost v Diana_eva 2.5 : 7.5
Lost v Gerardo 4 : 6
Win v Gqc6 6 : 4
Tie with Kftiz 5 : 5
Win v Karappe 7 : 3
Lost v Phoenix214 3.5 : 6.5
Win v crazy4hoop 5.5 : 4.5

Played boards against phoenix214 and waiting for him to complete.
Can challenge crazy4hoop to play over the weekend if he is OK to play (as I said upthread I mistakenly let our challenge expire after he had played his boards, so accept that is on me).

Some right shoeings there. Despite that, I've enjoyed the format as I've not played BaM before, so plenty to learn!

[crazy4hoop]

el mister, on 2017-January-20, 18:42, said:

Results for me (just to put them in one place)
Lost v Frank0 1.5 : 8.5
Lost v Gordontd 4.5 : 5.5
Lost v ovnclymz 3 : 7
Lost v Diana_eva 2.5 : 7.5
Lost v Gerardo 6 : 4
Win v Gqc6 6 : 4
Tie with Kftiz 5 : 5
Win v Karappe 7 : 3

Played boards against phoenix214 and waiting for him to complete.
Can challenge crazy4hoop to play over the weekend if he is OK to play (as I said upthread I mistakenly let our challenge expire after he had played his boards, so accept that is on me).

Some right shoeings there. Despite that, I've enjoyed the format as I've not played BaM before, so plenty to learn!

I'm happy to do whatever the community feels is right. Currently the dropbox spreadsheet has the score between us as 5-5. As an aside the round of 32 in the dropbox spreadsheet has no number 30 seed and 2 number 26 seeds.

[m1cha]

m1cha - veryfy
5.5 - 4.5
http://webutil.bridg...4844445&u=m1cha

BTW, I have not got a response yet from samboone (group 3). I hope she keeps playing.

[m1cha]

smerriman, on 2017-January-19, 22:36, said:

PS - if, say, I beat someone by 5.5 - 4.5 and they forfeit all other matches, everyone else in the group would get a score of 6. Might pay to bump up people under the average in that case

Actually it's worse. Unless I'm mistaken in interpreting the rule, the situation is this: That someone gets 0 in all other matches but yours and thus an average score of 0.45. All other players get 100 % minus that player's score, which is 9.55, not 6, for not playing; only you get 5.5 for playing. You may not be amused any more.

And there's another more hidden point. If one player resigns and does not play at all, all players in the group get 10 points and one might think it doesn't matter because it's the same for everyong but that's not true. It does matter to the other groups because the two highest 7th places of all groups advance to the KO round. If there is a group where two players drop out, the 7th place from that group will get 20 points from not playing against two opponents; while the 7th places from other groups (where no one drops out) only get an average of ~ 10 points from playing two matches. In conclusion the advances to the KO round will likely come from those groups where players dropped out. (I might actually like that because in my group someone did drop out and I may well end up 7th.)

I find the rule worked well as long as this was a small circle of dedicated players and the rule was supposed to make sure that everybody plays every board. But now we have, as a matter of fact, people who signed up to the event without knowing what it means and who do not mind getting punished. Which means that the purpose of the rule should shift to making sure that the event stays playable in a fair way to the remaining players even when someone drops out. This could be achieved by raising the score for the guilty side from 0 to a more realistic value of 35 or 40 % (and I could think of better ways if it were allowed to become a little more complicated).

In my opinion the question is not if the rule should be changed. The question is rather: Should the rule be changed for the next event or is the situation bad enough to change the rule even within this event? Anyway, my message to the organizers is: If you find it necessary to interpret the rule in a more realistic way in order to keep the event fair, I'm with you.

[sfi]

Chuck11 5.5 - 4.5 sfi

http://webutil.bridg...484854402&u=sfi

sfi 5.5 - 4.5 jexa_

http://webutil.bridg...484854545&u=sfi

jkr_1993 6 - 4 sfi

http://webutil.bridg...484854840&u=sfi

[gwnn]

I finished my sets against hrothgar, mkgnao, and pio_magic and I'm waiting for them; challenged prasanna as well and if he accepts and we play, I'll be done. BTW I have video evidence of my completed matches on
https://www.youtube.com/user/tgwnn
(of course I only upload once my opponent has already finished too). You can find out why playing for a swing half-asleep doesn't pay (especially not against Stephen Tu).

[Icycookie]

Icycookie 4.0 - Prasanna 6.0

http://webutil.bridg...038&u=icycookie

and I'm done with the group stages, enjoyed

[Stephen Tu]

http://webutil.bridg...&u=Stephen%20Tu
Stephen Tu 6.5 - 3.5 Prasanna

[gwnn]

gwnn - hrothgar 5-5 http://webutil.bridg...84943679&u=gwnn

We're both going down together!

[ovncylmz]

m1cha, on 2017-January-20, 22:51, said:

Actually it's worse. Unless I'm mistaken in interpreting the rule, the situation is this: That someone gets 0 in all other matches but yours and thus an average score of 0.45. All other players get 100 % minus that player's score, which is 9.55, not 6, for not playing; only you get 5.5 for playing. You may not be amused any more.

And there's another more hidden point. If one player resigns and does not play at all, all players in the group get 10 points and one might think it doesn't matter because it's the same for everyong but that's not true. It does matter to the other groups because the two highest 7th places of all groups advance to the KO round. If there is a group where two players drop out, the 7th place from that group will get 20 points from not playing against two opponents; while the 7th places from other groups (where no one drops out) only get an average of ~ 10 points from playing two matches. In conclusion the advances to the KO round will likely come from those groups where players dropped out. (I might actually like that because in my group someone did drop out and I may well end up 7th.)

I find the rule worked well as long as this was a small circle of dedicated players and the rule was supposed to make sure that everybody plays every board. But now we have, as a matter of fact, people who signed up to the event without knowing what it means and who do not mind getting punished. Which means that the purpose of the rule should shift to making sure that the event stays playable in a fair way to the remaining players even when someone drops out. This could be achieved by raising the score for the guilty side from 0 to a more realistic value of 35 or 40 % (and I could think of better ways if it were allowed to become a little more complicated).

In my opinion the question is not if the rule should be changed. The question is rather: Should the rule be changed for the next event or is the situation bad enough to change the rule even within this event? Anyway, my message to the organizers is: If you find it necessary to interpret the rule in a more realistic way in order to keep the event fair, I'm with you.

Hello m1cha, you raise a few points that I had in my mind. Your math portion has some misunderstandings and misinterpretations, but I got the main idea:)

1) Our first goal is to rank people in the groups fairly at this point. I don't know if it is clear in the rules but I am quite certain that we will not count those not completed games as 10-0 for the evaluation of 7th place decision. If we think that rule is clearly unfair to someone, then we will certainly make everything to make it fair - since people are friendly here, making a head-to-head match between people who finish 7th in different scenarios will not be a problem.
2) Now, seedings for the KO, that is a little bit tricky. I actually have an idea of using group 1-6 rankings as the base of the decision (i.e., Group winner will be seeded to 1 to 5 - first pot -, second places go to 6 to 10 - second pot - etc.). After this step, we have to decide who will be the actual 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 within that pot. To do that, I think we should use the % for the games in the matches against top 6 only. Then we will not have any issues about people who left.

I think this solves main issues in the current rules. All players - let me know what you think.

Best,
Ovunc

[pio_magic]

poio_magic - gwnn 6:4
http://webutil.bridg...907&u=pio_magic

[Ant590]

I am waiting for mkgnao to play their challenge against me (I have played the boards). I had a message saying "In case you're worried it will expire, no need to worry because I'll play it. If I forget, I'll forfeit.".

I have challenged prasanna several times, but he has not accepted. Many days left, so hopefully this will happen - for people who have played against him, did you have to chase?

[gwnn]

Ant590, on 2017-January-21, 16:40, said:

I am waiting for mkgnao to play their challenge against me (I have played the boards). I had a message saying "In case you're worried it will expire, no need to worry because I'll play it. If I forget, I'll forfeit.".

I have challenged prasanna several times, but he has not accepted. Many days left, so hopefully this will happen - for people who have played against him, did you have to chase?

I am waiting for mkgnao too, he has about 12 hours left. prasanna has not replied yet.

[Elyk25]

Looks like I'm done-- Here's all my scores:

Olegru: W 6-4

broze: L 3.5-6.5

http://webutil.bridg...015243&u=Elyk25

stoppiello: W 6-4

m1cha: T 5-5

cherdano: L 4.5-5.5

herzas: W 6-4

veryfy: L 3.5-6.5

http://webutil.bridg...015254&u=Elyk25

bobhew32: Withdrawn

sep123: L 3.5-6.5

tonywuhk: W 8-2

Thanks all!

[Ant590]

Mkgnao / Ant590 (4-6)
http://webutil.bridg...aeb4-1484825778

[smerriman]

In group 5, none of Wackojack, jexa_, Brigimon, kubiresmo, The It, jkr_1993, eblenner have posted in this thread at all. While some have accepted challenges from myself, sfi, and chuck11, none of them have reported any of the 21 challenges between this set.

Are any of them aware of this thread and actively participating?