BBO Discussion Forums: Grand slams - asking in earnest - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Grand slams - asking in earnest How does sampling work?

#1 User is offline   shyams 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Joined: 2009-August-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2016-September-16, 04:57


This is from the daily free MPs tournament. North was a Robot and chose to bid 6 at this time. I (South) held:

6+1 scored 53.8% whereas 7= was 90.8%

As an afterthought, I felt that all deals in the Robot North's sample (if it does sampling at this stage) should indicate 7 is the logical/correct bid. I'm asking in earnest whether sampling works at different stages of bidding and (if so) why North would not directly bid the grand slam.
0

#2 User is offline   lycier 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,612
  • Joined: 2009-September-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:China

Posted 2016-September-17, 05:52

Obviously, it is very rediculous for its responder to be a captain.
0

#3 User is offline   iandayre 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,114
  • Joined: 2013-December-23
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2016-September-18, 13:23

Perhaps. Reverse your minor suit holdings and the grand requires 2-2 H and 4-2 or better S. I guess you make with H 3-1 and the ruffing finesse working - or if they try to cash the A at T1.

I wonder what the definition of 6D is over 4NT? Even # of key cards with D void? Bingo. But GIB would not be able to process that, even if it were available.

It is sad but somewhat humorous that most of the times GIB bids a grand slam it is in reaction to an aggressive bid by partner that is described erroneously as showing the earth, moon and stars. When GIB uses 4NT then 5NT, and as a result can count 13 easy tricks in NT, it signs off in 6 anyway.
0

#4 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,610
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2016-September-18, 15:14

View Postiandayre, on 2016-September-18, 13:23, said:

I wonder what the definition of 6D is over 4NT? Even # of key cards with D void? Bingo. But GIB would not be able to process that, even if it were available.


6D would show an odd number of key cards and a diamond void. In the OP hand, I imagine GIB was worried about there only being 2 key cards opposite or the void not being in diamonds.
Wayne Somerville
0

#5 User is offline   cloa513 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,528
  • Joined: 2008-December-02

Posted 2016-September-18, 19:14

View Postshyams, on 2016-September-16, 04:57, said:


This is from the daily free MPs tournament. North was a Robot and chose to bid 6 at this time. I (South) held:

6+1 scored 53.8% whereas 7= was 90.8%

As an afterthought, I felt that all deals in the Robot North's sample (if it does sampling at this stage) should indicate 7 is the logical/correct bid. I'm asking in earnest whether sampling works at different stages of bidding and (if so) why North would not directly bid the grand slam.

Given how extreme your hand is, your response to 4NT is 7- partner has no aces and just strength and some support. Don't worry you aren't alone some "experts" don't allow for their hands are and subside at lower level than is sensible.
1

#6 User is offline   shyams 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Joined: 2009-August-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2016-September-19, 03:43

View Postcloa513, on 2016-September-18, 19:14, said:

Given how extreme your hand is, your response to 4NT is 7- partner has no aces and just strength and some support. Don't worry you aren't alone some "experts" don't allow for their hands are and subside at lower level than is sensible.

This post isn't about the ideal bidding sequence for the human. I just want to focus on why North (the Robot) was unable to conclude/infer that 7 is the proper bid.

For example, manudude03 pointed out that perhaps the Robot expected two key cards and/or void not being in diamonds. It sounds possible to construct such a hand. However, the probability of it being generated in a simulation sample feels low to me.
0

#7 User is offline   cloa513 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,528
  • Joined: 2008-December-02

Posted 2016-September-19, 04:14

View Postshyams, on 2016-September-19, 03:43, said:

This post isn't about the ideal bidding sequence for the human. I just want to focus on why North (the Robot) was unable to conclude/infer that 7 is the proper bid.

For example, manudude03 pointed out that perhaps the Robot expected two key cards and/or void not being in diamonds. It sounds possible to construct such a hand. However, the probability of it being generated in a simulation sample feels low to me.

How can it possibly- it is beyond what an not so intelligent expert human can handle.
0

#8 User is offline   Lovera 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,723
  • Joined: 2014-January-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bari (ITALIA)
  • Interests:I'm also on YOUTUBE with a channel of music songs .

Posted 2018-October-07, 02:59

3 Michaels by S could solve this situation and is managed by GIB: you don't know about support that can be 3 or 3. Luckly is 3 and is this way that allow you to drive GIB where you want.
0

#9 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,202
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2018-October-08, 14:37

View PostLovera, on 2018-October-07, 02:59, said:

3 Michaels by S could solve this situation and is managed by GIB: you don't know about support that can be 3 or 3.


Are you sure Michaels is managed by GIB in this particular situation?
I wouldn't expect it even from a human partner.
But a human would know not to make the stupid 2NT response and thus allow us to find the hearts fit at 3-level where there is space to nail down a grand precisely.
0

#10 User is offline   Lovera 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,723
  • Joined: 2014-January-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bari (ITALIA)
  • Interests:I'm also on YOUTUBE with a channel of music songs .

Posted 2018-October-08, 18:51

View Postpescetom, on 2018-October-08, 14:37, said:

Are you sure Michaels is managed by GIB in this particular situation?
I wouldn't expect it even from a human partner.
But a human would know not to make the stupid 2NT response and thus allow us to find the hearts fit at 3-level where there is space to nail down a grand precisely.


What's happening if 3 is inserted in box of GIB bidding (Michaels is used by GIB)?
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users