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Possible?

#1 User is offline   zenoo 

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Posted 2016-July-25, 14:17

Is it possible to make this hand 3NT, lead K heart and continue small heart .?

My link

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2016-July-29, 03:44
Reason for edit: removed usernames

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#2 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2016-July-25, 14:32

Click on the GIB button and you'll see that the lead should set them 1 trick. What happened, it looks like an improper claim was accepted?!?
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#3 User is offline   zenoo 

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Posted 2016-July-25, 15:11

Opponents play slowly and Ave result [in a free tourney] and director does not accept 3Nt-1:(.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2016-July-29, 03:45
Reason for edit: removed T#

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#4 User is offline   engden 

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Posted 2016-July-25, 15:52

:unsure: :unsure: :unsure: bunun ave olması tam bir rezalet

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2016-July-29, 03:41
Reason for edit: removed username

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#5 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2016-July-25, 18:08

View Postneilkaz, on 2016-July-25, 14:32, said:

Click on the GIB button and you'll see that the lead should set them 1 trick. What happened, it looks like an improper claim was accepted?!?


Down 1 trick if declarer cashes 5 clubs, 2 top diamonds and the heart ace for 8 tricks. If declarer tries to sneak a spade trick before cashing all the winners, down at least 2 tricks. I guess the director didn't really look at the hand before giving out average scores.
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#6 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2016-July-25, 18:13

View Postzenoo, on 2016-July-25, 15:11, said:

Opponents play slowly and Ave result [in a free tourney] and director does not accept 3Nt-1:(.

Bad
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” George Carlin
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#7 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2016-July-25, 20:36

View Postmasse24, on 2016-July-25, 18:13, said:

Bad

BAD is an understatement. Why not take a better look at the hand? Why not see what GIB says? Why punish the non-offenders?
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#8 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-July-26, 06:37

View Postneilkaz, on 2016-July-25, 20:36, said:

BAD is an understatement. Why not take a better look at the hand? Why not see what GIB says? Why punish the non-offenders?

This was part of a 3 board set. Can you say with absolute certainty that N-S were the OS over the course of the play given that they are not here to defend themselves?

As it happens, I found some evidence in the hand records that this North may well be a slow declarer player and they were declarer for every board in this set, so I suspect that was the case here. But suspecting is not the same as knowing and the responses so far seem to ignore that we do not actually know the facts of the case.

We also do not know the tournament rules in place. This was a free tournament and it is not unheard of for these to have a policy of averaging any unfinished board without checking them at all. When you enter these tournaments you know that you are getting what you pay for. I would have sympathy if this were a paid tournament but even then this would not be the correct way of complaining about it. As it is I suggest to the OP to play only in paid tournaments if they wish to avoid such incidents in the future.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#9 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-July-28, 15:33

[This] is one of the BEST yellows in the BBO. She helps everyone and works hard. This is the first time I heard a complaint about her.
Why do you all assume as if she has done something wrong intentionally?
If I was doing her job, and trying to help each and every single person who asks her a lot of stuff, TD ruling, complain from another players bad bid or play, asking for refunds etc etc....I would probably make much worse mistakes.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2016-July-29, 03:42
Reason for edit: removed username

"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#10 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-July-28, 17:02

View Postengden, on 2016-July-25, 15:52, said:

:unsure: :unsure: :unsure: bunun ave olması tam bir rezalet [removed]


[...]

Translation: Completely ridiculous to give average to this.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2016-July-29, 03:43
Reason for edit: removed username

"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#11 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2016-July-29, 02:48

As long as it is possible to mess up the defense on this one, not adjusting seems OK. Please note that TD didn't adjust to 3NT making, she left the board ave==

Normally in free tourneys TDs adjust only when the rest of the hand is crystal clear. You can argue that this is clear ofc, but think about MrAce's examples in the BBF indy and then consider again how obvious it is to adjust one way or another.

#12 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2016-July-29, 03:49

I removed username of the TD in question and usernames in hand diagram. It's OK to post hands from BBO and ask the community opinion on adjustments, but do so without giving names.

If you want to complain about a specific person report them to abuse@bridgebase.com.

If you want to discuss a board or a decision, BBF is fine.

#13 User is offline   aurora 

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Posted 2016-July-29, 04:30

I didn't want to comment the player's post. However, maybe some of you want to know also my opinion.
I remember that tournament and I remember the hand.
Also I remember none called to complain about slow opps. Because time was out board 3 was adjusted automatically ave= . After the end of the round, the player asked adjustment. They played only 4 tricks. I remember in that moment when I checked the hand I thought if north plays spade from dummy (after he cashes his clubs) I don’t know If west will jump with the A or not (usual 2nd hand plays small) and what opps will discard on all good clubs. So, my decision was to not adjust the hand. This was my decision on that moment. My apologizes if my decision was wrong.

#14 User is offline   Cheryl88 

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Posted 2016-July-29, 13:11

Is there recourse for players wronged?

Being a real life TD, I know rulings are not perfect because TDs are human, but there is always someone a player can go to afterwards ... a committee, whoever. Once, a TD/club owner made an error and through many emails, even that stubborn and onerous club owner gave in.

Or is BBO different? Are the TDs the be all, end all, say all?

I do not complain about the ruling in question or the people involved, but instead about the way the system is set up. The system should take into account the occasional TD error, if in fact there was any error in this situation. (Yes, double dummy 3NT does not make, but ...). There should be an appeal process set up or something. And if there already is, it should be made known.
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#15 User is offline   beauchamp0 

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Posted 2016-July-29, 18:32

View Postzenoo, on 2016-July-25, 14:17, said:

Is it possible to make this hand 3NT, lead K heart and continue small heart .?

My link


3NT is an awful bid.

With that dummy, you would easily make 6.
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#16 User is offline   Cheryl88 

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Posted 2016-July-30, 02:20

View Postbeauchamp0, on 2016-July-29, 18:32, said:

3NT is an awful bid.

With that dummy, you would easily make 6.


Yes, 3NT is an awful bid, but I doubt that partnership should be in 6C. 6C easily makes not because of the strength of dummy, but because clubs split 2-2 and spades no worse than 4-2. Plus no wasted values anywhere. (Ace-King of diamonds opposite a doubleton, ace of hearts opposite a singleton.) If not for the favorable splits, declarer would have much work to do without pulling trumps.

After north's proper opening bid of 2C strong, and south's negative reply, partnership would probably end up in 3NT anyway. Remember, north has only 23 HCP, not 33.
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#17 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-July-30, 08:12

View Postbeauchamp0, on 2016-July-29, 18:32, said:

3NT is an awful bid.

If a 3NT opening is your systemic call for 24-25 balanced, what would you suggest instead?
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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