BBO Discussion Forums: ATB - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

ATB 3NT off while 7C makes

Poll: ATB (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Who is to blame?

  1. All West (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Mostly West (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  3. 50-50 (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  4. Mostly East (4 votes [13.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.79%

  5. All East (23 votes [79.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 79.31%

  6. No blame, unlucky (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,610
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2016-July-21, 17:05



MPs scoring. Who is to blame for ending in 3NT off the diamond suit?
Wayne Somerville
0

#2 User is offline   kuhchung 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 729
  • Joined: 2010-August-03

Posted 2016-July-21, 17:11

EAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Videos of the worst bridge player ever playing bridge:
https://www.youtube....hungPlaysBridge
2

#3 User is offline   kuhchung 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 729
  • Joined: 2010-August-03

Posted 2016-July-21, 17:13

3N shows a hand like x KJxxx QJxx xxx or something like that, not a doubleton in partner's primary suit, 4 card support in his secondary, and aces and nothing in the red suits

yes you might fabricate a 3C jump shift but if you are that worried about it you can preference to 3S
Videos of the worst bridge player ever playing bridge:
https://www.youtube....hungPlaysBridge
0

#4 User is offline   neilkaz 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,568
  • Joined: 2006-June-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington IL USA
  • Interests:Backgammon, Bridge, Hockey

Posted 2016-July-21, 17:18

East's 3NT bid is the type of bid you make on this auction when looking for a new partner.
0

#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,900
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2016-July-21, 17:50

What do you want E to bid ?

Partner has shown 5/4 and too much to make a NF bid. 3N is a punt, but could be right, going past 3N could be totally wrong.

You could easily have a situation where 3N is cold but 5 founders on a 4-1 club break or you're 630/660 against 600/non laydown 620.

Give partner QJx instead of K10x for example and maybe add J.

I don't think it's easy, but oddly what I play works really well here:

We have exactly 2 hands where we open 1 5-5 in the blacks, 1-1-2 is this hand minus K and 1-1red-1-any-2 is this hand, in fact it may well go 1-1-1-3-3-4-4N(voidwood void, 4 would be KC)-5- and partner is known to be 2434 or similar with A/K and 1-2 other points as we play that a 2434 10 count would start with an inverted raise and we have other bids for the other hands, so we're bidding 6 or 7 clubs, probably 7.
0

#6 User is offline   wank 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,866
  • Joined: 2008-July-13

Posted 2016-July-21, 19:29

View PostCyberyeti, on 2016-July-21, 17:50, said:

What do you want E to bid ?




3S. 3NT is absurd
2

#7 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2016-July-21, 21:37

View PostCyberyeti, on 2016-July-21, 17:50, said:

What do you want E to bid ?

Partner has shown 5/4 and too much to make a NF bid. 3N is a punt, but could be right, going past 3N could be totally wrong.

You could easily have a situation where 3N is cold but 5 founders on a 4-1 club break or you're 630/660 against 600/non laydown 620.

Give partner QJx instead of K10x for example and maybe add J.


I think we can play 3 as...

a-6+
b- Fear to bid 3 NT.

Opener can bid 3 NT with the QJx and void or stiff . If he raises suit and you hold the East hand in OP, you should be happy that you did not play 3 NT and can correct to 5 or 4

If we bid 3 as Wank suggests, opener will never know when 3 NT is right. After all responder could have KJTx and xxxx

Another solution can be to use 3 over 3 as a relay bid.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





2

#8 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,092
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2016-July-21, 22:50

Well, I'd never bid 3N. At MPS I don't want to give up on 3N...yet. 3D works well here.

Let's agree standard sucks. Knowing partner has 5 clubs is pretty huge.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#9 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,900
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2016-July-22, 02:51

View PostMrAce, on 2016-July-21, 21:37, said:

I think we can play 3 as...

a-6+
b- Fear to bid 3 NT.

Opener can bid 3 NT with the QJx and void or stiff . If he raises suit and you hold the East hand in OP, you should be happy that you did not play 3 NT and can correct to 5 or 4

If we bid 3 as Wank suggests, opener will never know when 3 NT is right. After all responder could have KJTx and xxxx

Another solution can be to use 3 over 3 as a relay bid.


This is fair comment, but if you don't have these agreements, you have to find a bid. I'm not saying 3N is a good bid, just that it's not totally absurd.
0

#10 User is offline   Tramticket 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,070
  • Joined: 2009-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kent (Near London)

Posted 2016-July-22, 05:30

We are in a game forcing auction after 3. A 3 bid shows values in hearts and leaves open 3NT, 4 or 5/6 as possible contracts.

3NT or 3 are too unilateral.

I agree with MrAce - 3 can be just showing heart values - it doesn't guarantee the weak hand with long hearts once a game forcing auction is established.
0

#11 User is offline   ggwhiz 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Joined: 2008-June-23
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2016-July-22, 08:26

View Postneilkaz, on 2016-July-21, 17:18, said:

East's 3NT bid is the type of bid you make on this auction when looking for a new partner.


..... and before the next hand when your partner becomes violently ill.

3 still keeps 3nt in the picture if that's what partner bids and when they raise here, I can't go wrong even if I pass in 4 but that bid would show diamond shortness so when I remove it to clubs we may well get to the (small) slam.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
What is baby oil made of?
0

#12 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,190
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2016-July-22, 08:52

View PostCyberyeti, on 2016-July-22, 02:51, said:

This is fair comment, but if you don't have these agreements, you have to find a bid. I'm not saying 3N is a good bid, just that it's not totally absurd.


You are right. It is completely absurd.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
1

#13 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,900
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2016-July-22, 09:00

View PostWinstonm, on 2016-July-22, 08:52, said:

You are right. It is completely absurd.


Well if I think my choices are:

3red - shows long suit and a heap (we don't play WJS)
3 gives partner no clue where my red suit values are and may encourage partner to bid a terrible 4 when 3N or 5/6 is the spot, I have no clue whether to remove
3N yuk
4/5 may already be past the top spot

because I don't have more sophisticated agreements about 3 red, I might punt 3N occasionally thinking there is no good bid so I'll just guess
0

#14 User is online   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,068
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UK

Posted 2016-July-22, 09:06

I would bid 3 but I am a bit worried about it. If partner raises it, I could go back to 4 but does that really show this kind of hand? Next time I have A-KQJxxx-xxx-Jxx and I am looking for a diamond control for a heart slam.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#15 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2016-July-22, 09:20

View Posthelene_t, on 2016-July-22, 09:06, said:

I would bid 3 but I am a bit worried about it. If partner raises it, I could go back to 4 but does that really show this kind of hand? Next time I have A-KQJxxx-xxx-Jxx and I am looking for a diamond control for a heart slam.


You could have started 2 or 3 with those depending on system agreements, but if that was unavaliable, I do not think you should worry about it. You should pass 4 with the hand you gave as example.

KQJxx
Ax
xx
AKQx

KQJxx
Ax
Qx
AKxx

Are the type of hands pd will bid 4

KQJxx(x)
Ax(x)
x
AKQx


KQJxx
Ax
Ax
KQxx

Are the type of hands pd would bid 4 with, instead of simple raise of hearts. Pd's 4 should never be 5044 or 5035 6034 in this auction.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





0

#16 User is offline   ggwhiz 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Joined: 2008-June-23
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2016-July-22, 09:42

View Posthelene_t, on 2016-July-22, 09:06, said:

I would bid 3 but I am a bit worried about it. If partner raises it, I could go back to 4 but does that really show this kind of hand? Next time I have A-KQJxxx-xxx-Jxx and I am looking for a diamond control for a heart slam.


Some awkwardness is the cost of keeping 3nt alive if partner bids it but I suspect it will be very rare for me not to be relatively comfortable with my follow ups including if partner drove to a 6 or even 7 contract on the moyse by trotting out big black next.

As for going back to 4, suppressing that club support has happened in my partnership and is now defined as a crime, excusable only by angling for 3nt as here. Not to mention the diamond pump on partners 5-card suit.

The next time hand looks like a 5 bid to me should partner raise.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
What is baby oil made of?
1

#17 User is offline   SteveMoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,168
  • Joined: 2012-May-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati Unit 124
  • Interests:Family, Travel, Bridge Tournaments and Writing. Youth Bridge

Posted 2016-July-22, 20:04

3N is atrocious. Much prefer 3 punt so West can continue. Even 3 is better than 3N.
West should not sit 3N with 5=0=3=5 3-loser. Both.
Be the partner you want to play with.
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
0

#18 User is offline   rmnka447 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,366
  • Joined: 2012-March-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Bridge, Golf, Soccer

Posted 2016-July-22, 23:23

3 NT is egregious without a stop when West has shown 9+ black cards. It is putting cards (a stopper) in West's hand -- a bidding no-no if you can't infer they are there by bridge logic,

East's bid should be 3 which shows something in . If West raises to 4 , then East should carry on to 5 .
0

#19 User is offline   gszes 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,654
  • Joined: 2011-February-12

Posted 2016-July-23, 16:40

100% east 3n is horribly grotesque. P chose 3c for a reason (vs say 2n/3n) so there is some sort of problem with one (or both) of the red sujits. That means 3n appears to be a horrible choice since it is guesswork at best but what other choices are there that better reflect this balanced 9 hcp hand (sort of what 3n sounds like).

3d unless this is artificial (no reason to suspect that here) it should at worst be "stuff" in diamonds and nothing much in hearts fro 3n purposes but could also be natural in the sense of length. No matter how you look at it this is diametrically opposed to what you want to portray with this hand. In fact this bid is actually worse than 3n since it sends the partnership on the road to destruction for no good reason.

3s downside is 3 fold 1. insufficient spade support 2. Does nothing to address potential problems for possible NT contract. 3. Hides your sides best asset (4 card club support) still this bid is better than 3d or 3n

4c vastly superior to the above since it reveals your sides best asset and leaves all sorts of room available for whatever opener wishes to do

5c being at max this seems like a shame but still hardly horrific rates better than 3d 3s or 3n

whats left???? is there ANY good bid available here.

If we swap around the heart and dia suit not a soul on the planet would have a problem with 3d so why is it so hard to imagine
3h
is the right thing to do here? Even if opener supports hearts we can convert to clubs and opener will realize our 3h bid conveyed a dia weakeness that might be useful.

3h 10
4c 7
5c 5
3s 4
3n 3
4s 2
3d 0

don't ask for any credit for 6c or 7c since I don't readily give any credit for las vegas bids that happen to work.
0

#20 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2016-July-24, 11:03

East knows partner has short in a red suit, whatever the suit he rather plays a suit contract.
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users