[kgr]

pork rind, on Apr 10 2005, 05:55 AM, said:

i try to always open 1nt with a 5 card maj. i like 3c as puppet. but you do miss some good 2h and 2s partials. and since i play with a lot of different partners i frequently dont have a partner who likes this approach. but i have had pretty decent results with it. tc

Why do you use 3C and not 2C as puppet?
General Q for those who open 1NT with 5-card M:
Do you use stayman and forget about 5-3 fit or do you use pupper or something else to find the 5-3 fit?

[Gerben42]

Scanning through the thread I found someone wrote an article on this. So I will ask this: Who is Zeke Jabbour and where can I find his article on opening 1NT with a 5-card major?

[Free]

kgr, on Apr 11 2005, 10:11 AM, said:

pork rind, on Apr 10 2005, 05:55 AM, said:

  i try to always open 1nt with a 5 card maj.  i like 3c as puppet.  but you do miss some good 2h and 2s partials.  and since i play with a lot of different partners i frequently dont have a partner who likes this approach.  but i have had pretty decent results with it.  tc

Why do you use 3C and not 2C as puppet?
General Q for those who open 1NT with 5-card M:
Do you use stayman and forget about 5-3 fit or do you use pupper or something else to find the 5-3 fit?

I'll speak for myself here...

In Belgium, most play 1NT as any 4333/4432/5332 with 15-17 HCP. We like garbage stayman, and 3♣ as GF puppet stayman. It's a matter of what you like. With invitational hands and a maximum opener, you'll also find a 5-3 fit, because after a bidding like 1NT-2♣-2M-2NT-3M opener is maximum with a 5 card M. So it's only the bare minimums which don't find the 5-3 fit.
The advantages of garbage stayman imo are great, so we don't want to give that up for a 2-level puppet stayman.

[helene_t]

Another problem with 2♣ as puppet stayman is this: what does 1NT-2♣-2♦ mean?

You could play it as promissing at least one 4-card major. In that case you would have to rebid 3NT with a maximum without a 4-card major. Then responder can't use puppet stayman with a weak hand with diamonds. Also, you can't look for a minor suit fit while staying below 3NT. Finally, you give the opponents more information about declarer's hand than necesary.

Alternatively, you could play it as just denying a 5-card major. I'm not sure if you would want to play that after a 2NT opening. If not, you need different schemes for 1NT and 2NT. Also, you would have to use 2♥ as a second relay, giving the opponents two opportunities for lead-directing doubles when the field bids 1NT-3NT.

[pbleighton]

"Scanning through the thread I found someone wrote an article on this. So I will ask this: Who is Zeke Jabbour and where can I find his article on opening 1NT with a 5-card major?"

He writes a column for the ACBL Bulletin. The article is in the April issue. It isn't available online.

Peter

[Echognome]

Here are two possibilities for playing 2♣ as 5 card stayman.

1) 2♣ is always invitational or better. Then 2♦ promises one 4 card major, and responder bids the major he has not got (or some other relay with both).

2) 2♣ could be weak. Then 2♦ denies a 5-card major. Responder then bids 2♥ or 2♠ as garbage, 2NT is invitational and 3♣ or 3♦ game forces asking for 4 card majors as you see fit.

Obviously both have their flaws, but just saying it's possible.

As for looking for minor suit fits, you can always play
2♠ as minor suit stayman showing either a) bust in diamonds, both minors slam try, or c) concern about 3NT as a place to play.
2NT as a transfer to 3♣ showing either a) a bust in clubs or 4441 game force.

You can still keep 2♦ and 2♥ as transfers.

[MickyB]

I think it's much better for 2♦ not to promise or deny 4 card majors. I played that a bid of 2M is then invitational with 4 cards in the suit. I guess you could play it as 4 or 5 like in Keri.

[kenberg]

Stayman, when opener may have a five card major:

The approach I will describe fits with my style of requiring more than minimum strength to open 1nt with a five card major. It also is related to how I play my four suit transfers.

It is not an approach that I would advocate in a pick-up game.

If partner lacks the strength for 2C, then we may miss a 5-3, or a 5-4, fit. That's a price I may pay. It is not always bad.

If partner bids 2C and I have a five card major, I bid 3M.

This is safe, with my agreemants, because partner will always have either at least invitational strength (so my 3M bid accepts the invitation) or he will have a shapely hand with support for both majors. In this latter case I may go down but the Law (I am something of a skeptic regarding the Law and am delighted that Lawrence is now providing expert support for my doubts, but still I'll invoke it) may protect me.

Here is how this relates to four suit tranfers: People get dealt hands with a four card major and a long minor. Some of these hands are strong, some are weak. Bergen recommends (I think) that with the weak hand responder bid 2C and if the major is not found then sign off in the minor. Clearly that won't jibe with my 3M response. After 1N-2C-3H if partner has a weak 6-4 (major=spades of course) then we are in deep stuff. So I play that with the weak 6-4 you transfer to the minor. This is not as dumb as it may sound since it quickly gets you to a playable spot at the 3 level. You know parter fits your 6 card minor (with rare exceptions) and if partner fits your major as well then the opponents must also have a super fit (if you have a total of x cards in two of your suits, and thus 26-x in your other two, then the opponents have exactly 26-(26-x)=x cards in your combined short suits. In double fits, this arithmetic is guaranteed). If 2C is based on a strong 6-4 then the 3M response does crowd the auction a bit but it also gives a pretty descriptive picture of the opening hand.

Cutting to the chase:

After 1NT -P, I sometimes later wish I had opened 1M.

After 1NT- 2H(trf)-2S-P, I may be in a bad contract if I opened 1NT with 2 cards in the other major. I consider this before my opening but I don't necessarily let it stop me.

After 1NT-2C-3M, I have not yet had it happen that any bad result I get comes from opening 1NT instead of 1M. I misplay a lot of hands but that's not the fault of the system.

I have seen estimates, based on air probably, that the auction 1NT-3NT is worth on average a half trick per board over auctions that take a more descriptive route but still end in 3NT. Reese once described 1NT as the contract that most often makes when it shouldn't. And there is the rebid issue already discussed. All in all, it seems like the occassional 1NT opening with a five card major earns its keep.


Ken

[lenze]

Quote

I have opened 1N with AKxxx xx AKQ xxx. Yes this is probably extreme1N.

J. This does not surprise me. I vaguely remember your dad opening 1N with

Qx Qx AKQxxxx Qx . Must have been 30 years ago. I believe we ended up defending 2S for a top.

lenze