[Kungsgeten]

Do you have any agreements of what a jump shift in response to a weak two bid should mean. Lets's take 2♠ for instance, where we currently play:

2♠---
2NT = INV+ with 2+ spades
3♣ = INV+ with hearts
3♦ = Natural, forcing
3♥ = GF with clubs
3♠ = To play
3NT = To play
4♣♦ = No idea
4♥ = I would take this as "to play"
4♠ = To play

[mgoetze]

I have no agreement but if someone bid it I would assume it was a splinter.

[WesleyC]

One simple treatment is to use 4♣ over any preemptive bid as an artificial slam try.

This is most valuable (as a non jump) after a 3♥ or 3♠ opening given that you don't really have another slam-try available, but for consistency I also like using it after weak 2s.

Over a weak 2, my preference is to use 2NT as a range-probe/shortage-ask and 4♣ to ask specifically about suit quality in the context of slam.

[kuhchung]

4C as modified keycard is pretty popular where I am

[kenrexford]

Strangely perhaps, but I have in some partnerships (where two-bids are weak) played jump shifts by RESPONDER also as Roman Jumps (obviously as a passed hand).

For example, 2♠-P-4♣ would be the sequence with 5-5 or better in clubs and diamonds, 4♦ reds, 4♥ hearts+clubs.

It NEVER came up.

I have also played various slam-oriented ideas.

It NEVER came up.

I have also played jump shifts as lead-directional raises to the four-level. E.g., 4♣ as a raise to 4♠, but consider a club lead.

It came up, but it gave up space to the opponents.

[steve2005]

One method would be as an asking bid for suit bid, looking for slam if opener has a control in that suit.
Responding with steps depending on if and what control you have.
Yes 3♠ or 4♥ would still be asking bids. You have to bid 3♥ forcing at lower level to play in 4♥

[Kungsgeten]

I think I read somewhere about having two raises to 4M, where one raise allowed opener to compete in case the opponents bid and the other did not. Perhaps this was after a double or something though, I can't remember.

[lycier]

mgoetze, on 2015-December-10, 10:32, said:

I have no agreement but if someone bid it I would assume it was a splinter.

I think this is not a good method since weak two bid is a sort of descriptive opening approach.

[lycier]

Kungsgeten, on 2015-December-10, 10:29, said:

Do you have any agreements of what a jump shift in response to a weak two bid should mean. Lets's take 2♠ for instance, where we currently play:

2♠---
2NT = INV+ with 2+ spades
3♣ = INV+ with hearts
3♦ = Natural, forcing
3♥ = GF with clubs
3♠ = To play
3NT = To play
4♣♦ = No idea
4♥ = I would take this as "to play"
4♠ = To play

Good topic,however there are several issues on your CC.
1- If your 3♦ is natural with forcing,3♣ also is same with natural and forcing.
2- about 4♦,I never hear of 4♦ as any convention.
3- Very strangly,according to your CC,I know you don't play "New Suit Constructive" style,I am wondering why you ask this question?
Generally speaking ,this method is more suitable for playing "New Suit Constructive" style.

[steve2005]

If you want to really go wild you can use puppets and transfers of 2H & 2S - ill just give for 2S
2N-puppet to 3C
.......3C-forced
------------ 3D-singleton ask
.................3H- C & H
..................3S INV with C side

3C - transfer to D
.......... latter bidding 3S is INV with D side
...........other suit bids forcing

3D transfer to H you get the idea

3H transfer to S INV+
3S - preemptive

[hrothgar]

After 2♠

4♣ = Control asking bid in Clubs or Hearts
4♦ = Control Asking Bid
4♥ = Modified keycard

[lycier]

Discuss this with your partner at first since it is so appealing :
1- especially when you play New Suit Constructive" style.
2- Generally speaking,it would be more suitable for " Weak Two Majors bid",not including 2♦
3- Jump shift doesn't include 4♦,it only refer to 3♠ and 4♣.

3♠ :
2♦ - 3♠/ ♥ and 2♥ - 3♠
3♠ says I have a decent ♠ suit with GF,and at the same time I also prevent opps to find other side suits fit.


4♣
play 4♣ as Roman Key Card.
I know two ways :

First approach : " 001122 " method after 4♣

• 0 : 0 Key Cards
• 1 : 1 Key Card without the Queen of trumps
• 1 : 1 Key Card with the Queen of trumps
• 2 : 2 Key Cards without the Queen of trumps
• 2 : 2 Key Cards with the Queen of trumps.

Second approach : "02-1-1 " method after 4♣
First step=0-2 key card
Second step=1 key card
Third step=1+trumph Q
When opener have two keycards with trumph Q,it should bid up to 6.
When opener answer 0-2 key card,after responder return to 4M,opener should rebid 4nt to show 2 keycards without trumph Q,and then responder can bid 5M to sign off,if responder bid new suit,that is a rely asking bid,the method of answer is first step is 0-2 keycard,second step is 1 key card.

Note that the modified responses are a definite improvement opposite a Weak Two bid,its shortcoming is the risk of adding too much clutter to your convention card .

[lycier]

hrothgar, on 2015-December-11, 09:27, said:

After 2♠

4♣ = Control asking bid in Clubs or Hearts
4♦ = Control Asking Bid
4♥ = Modified keycard

Is it Roth 4♣ convention or Roth 4♣ convention extention?

Pardon.
I have to say in fact Weak Two Bid is a sort of descriptive opening instead of Pre-emptive,but Roth 4♣ convention is more suitable for Pre-emptive for sure.

[hrothgar]

lycier, on 2015-December-11, 10:08, said:

Is it Roth 4♣ convention or Roth 4♣ convention extention?

Pardon.
I have to say in fact Weak Two Bid is a sort of descriptive opening instead of Pre-emptive,but Roth 4♣ convention is more suitable for Pre-emptive for sure.

After 4♣

4♠ = I have no round suit control
4♥ = I have a 1st/2nd round heart control, but no Club control
4♦ = I have a 1st/2nd round Club control

[lycier]

hrothgar, on 2015-December-11, 10:25, said:

After 4♣

4♠ = I have no round suit control
4♥ = I have a 1st/2nd round heart control, but no Club control
4♦ = I have a 1st/2nd round Club control

Thank you very much for good reply.

[daffydoc]

old fashioned meaning of the bid was to ask for controls in steps - none second first - I still like it and use it in my regular partnership with Pecoks

2H 4C asks for controls in clubs in steps - so when one employs this one needs to be able to handle the response - works spectacularly well when responder has a great hand but xx or xxx type holding in a side suit.

[Kungsgeten]

lycier, on 2015-December-11, 09:17, said:

Good topic,however there are several issues on your CC.
1- If your 3♦ is natural with forcing,3♣ also is same with natural and forcing.
2- about 4♦,I never hear of 4♦ as any convention.
3- Very strangly,according to your CC,I know you don't play "New Suit Contructive" style,I am wondering why you ask this question?
Generally speaking ,this method is more suitable for playing "New Suit Contructive" style.

What do you mean by my CC? Are you talking about the original post?

1. Why? The reasoning is that hearts are more important than diamonds. http://bridgewinners...itch-principle/
2. Me neither (after a weak two bid), that's why I asked
3. What CC? Which method?

Your idea of having 4C as RKCB might make sense (we play that after we open preemptive at the three level), but with most of those hands I guess I would bid 2NT first.

[lycier]

Kungsgeten, on 2015-December-11, 18:18, said:

What do you mean by my CC? Are you talking about the original post?

1. Why? The reasoning is that hearts are more important than diamonds. http://bridgewinners...itch-principle/
2. Me neither (after a weak two bid), that's why I asked
3. What CC? Which method?

Your idea of having 4C as RKCB might make sense (we play that after we open preemptive at the three level), but with most of those hands I guess I would bid 2NT first.

I have read that article,of course,it still is one of expert bidding approach,very good.
It should say there are several bidding system after weak two bid: how to defind 3♣/♦ over weak majors bid ?
1- First approach,3♣/♦=special artificial with GF,just like what you said.
2- Second approach,3♣/♦=natural with GF.Most of players like it.
3- Third approach,3♣/♦=natural with non-forcing. It is a "New Suit Constructive" style.

[jallerton]

Kungsgeten, on 2015-December-10, 10:29, said:

Do you have any agreements of what a jump shift in response to a weak two bid should mean. Lets's take 2♠ for instance, where we currently play:

2♠---
2NT = INV+ with 2+ spades
3♣ = INV+ with hearts
3♦ = Natural, forcing
3♥ = GF with clubs
3♠ = To play
3NT = To play
4♣♦ = No idea
4♥ = I would take this as "to play"
4♠ = To play

I play these jumps as .........natural.

2♠-4♥ = selecting the final contract (game bids are to play)
2♠-4m = natural with spade support (i.e. a fit jump). (doesn't make sense to bid the suit at this level without support)