[lycier]

Hello BBFers :
I have never read the related "Size Ask Bid" from the books in the past, I am very lucky to play against an American BBO star player over one thousand in the recent years in the MBC,I learned a lot of knowledge,including "Size Ask Bid".I also know many of American BBO star players like it.

1NT - 2♠* , 2♠* is a size ask bid,I only know there are two of the basic meanings :
1- Ask opener size,2nt=15hcp,3♣=16-17hcp.
2- Or responder have a minor bust.
If you would add any content,I would appriciate.

However I have several questions on it,for example : hold a single minor suited with invitational values.
♠:xx
♥:Jxx
♦:XX
♣:AQxxxx


If play size ask bid,it goes:
1nt- 2♠*
2nt- 3♣ sign off
After opener push the hand,actually opener hold :
♠:Kxxx
♥:A109
♦:AJ10
♣:Kxx
Unfortunately it would lose 3nt game.

If it goes:
1nt- 2♠*
3♣*- 3nt
After opener push the hand,actually opener hold :
♠:KQxx
♥:A109
♦:AKxx
♣:xx
Unfortunately it is a tough work and often difficult to make 3nt.

I think the blame is "size ask bid" can't do this job,2nt or 3♣ never show a specific minor fit.No fit,no game in the invitational sequence.
On the contrary,if play 1nt-3m to show a single minor suited with invitational values,the result would become more better for sure.
Playing "size ask bid" means it would lose invitational sequence on minor single suited,its price is too big, I don't understand the principle. If you can give me any suggestion on it,I would appriciate.

Best Wishes

Lycier

[BillHiggin]

Gavin Wolpert wrote an article on this on Bridge Winners. http://bridgewinners...with-range-ask/
"Range ask" is how I have seen it named more than "size ask" but the difference in minimal.
I does cost the ability to make an invitation based on opener's fit with a long club suit. It gains by eliminating the need for a fake stayman query as part of a balanced game try.

[lycier]

Usually they play 1nt - 3♣ as five cards major stayman ,some play 3♣ as transfer to 3♦.

[Zelandakh]

There are 2 popular ways of playing this. The first is the Baron range ask, which combines a natural 2NT response with searching for 4-4 fits. The follow-ups are completely natural with 4 card suits bid up-the-line. The more common form combines the range ask with a club transfer. Usually GF hands as well as weak ones are included. This in turn has two main styles - the more common is for the GF hands to be one-suiters, often combined with shortage-showing rebids, for example:

1NT - 2♠; 2NT (or 3♣)
=============
P = to play
3♣ = to play
3♦ = 6+ clubs, 0-1 diamonds
3♥ = 6+ clubs, 0-1 hearts
3♠ = 6+ clubs, 0-1 spades
3NT = to play over 2NT; slam try over 3♣

The way I do it is to bid the 2-suited hands through the transfer and to move the 1-suited hands elsewhere. In this case the rebids show a second suit, which I do with transfers:

1NT - 2♠; 2NT (or 3♣)
=============
P = to play
3♣ = to play
3♦ = 5+ clubs, 4 hearts
3♥ = 5+ clubs, 4 spades
3♠ = 5+ clubs, 5+ diamonds
3NT = to play over 2NT; slam try over 3♣

There are obviously other possibilities here too. The key as always is to match the hand types being shown here with the rest of the 1NT structure.

[mgoetze]

Zelandakh, on 2015-December-15, 04:28, said:

There are 2 popular ways of playing this. The first is the Baron range ask,

Maybe it was popular in 1975, I've never seen anyone play it though.

[helene_t]

mgoetze, on 2015-December-15, 04:51, said:

Maybe it was popular in 1975, I've never seen anyone play it though.

Some pairs in Lancaster played Baron combined with range ask.

Anyway, you can't use 2♠ for an inivitational balanced hand AND for an invitational hand with clubs at the same time. If you want to be able to show both then you need two different bids, for example

2♠=clubs, any strength. Opener bids 2NT if he accepts an invite (after which responder can still sign off in 3♣), and 3♣ if he rejects an invite.
2NT=invitational.
3♣=diamonds, weak or strong
3♦=diamonds, invitational

[gwnn]

One thing you can do with Zel's first method (2♠=range ask or clubs, any range) is to "cheat" a little bit with good 15's or 16's with good "club support" and bid 3♣. So opener could respond 3♣ on the opening posts's two aces+Kxx in clubs (they don't have to but they could). Then responder can essentially bid 2♠ as 8-9 balanced or invite with clubs and opener will usually bid 2NT on 15-16ish and 3♣ on 16-17ish with some unjustified upgrades for club values. It's not great but it's better than nothing IMO.

As a first approximation, it would be:
15: reject
16: check clubs/tricks
17: accept

edit: Zel, how is 3C-3NT a slam try is 2S can have a balanced 9-count?

This post has been edited by gwnn: 2015-December-15, 11:19

[Vampyr]

lycier, on 2015-December-15, 02:45, said:

Usually they play 1nt - 3♣ as five cards major stayman ,some play 3♣ as transfer to 3♦.

Well, they haven't thought this through, have they. Of course using 2♠ as a balanced invite frees up 2NT. Now just reverse them, and 2♠ can show a minor-suit invite; opener bids the lowest he would accept, 2NT neither, 3NT both. Or something, I don't know.

mgoetze, on 2015-December-15, 04:51, said:

Maybe it was popular in 1975, I've never seen anyone play it though.

2♠ raise to 2NT/Baron fairly popular here. There is also the 1-point range (eg 2♠ balanced with exactly 11 points). Probably pretty good in terms of frequency...

[Zelandakh]

gwnn, on 2015-December-15, 08:32, said:

edit: Zel, how is 3C-3NT a slam try is 2S can have a balanced 9-count?

Sorry, I had a very busy day today (I guess I shouldn't have been on BBF at all ) - naturally I meant it the other way round, to play over 3♣ and [it started out as] a slam try over 2NT.

[Siegmund]

In Kearse's Bridge Conventions Complete it is called "Two Spades Quantitative" or something similar to that. It's a rather old convention that has suddenly become popular again in new window-dressing the last few years. I played it for quite a while in the late 90s and never ran across another pair playing it until circa 2010.

[straube]

I used to play...

2N-puppet stayman
3C-transfer
3D-splinter
3H-splinter
3S-splinter

which left me without a club splinter as well as a way to show clubs.

So...

2S-size ask
.....2N/3C
..........P/3C-to play clubs
..........3D-club splinter
..........3M-various with clubs

The size ask doesn't have to have anything to do with clubs. You can use it as any relay bid for responder to show various hand patterns, etc though obviously it's nice to show
things that benefit from the size ask information.