[jodepp]

dave_beer, on 2015-October-18, 22:09, said:

On different auctions where I could have rebid 2 of either minor that would be rejecting the presumed 7-card fit and signing off in a safer partscore. Since the support double is unlimited partner could bid again but probably shouldn't return to the major.

I wouldn't want to bid either 3♣ or 3♦ on this auction without having discussed it first.

Fair enough. A favorite partner and I have an agreement about 2NT on hands like this - 2NT by responder simply shows a desire to compete (probably in opener's minor but sometimes the other minor too). Thus 3♣ would be forcing (and help suit).

[phil_20686]

THis is why I dislike responding 1S here. How much easier would this auction be if you could have shown clubs initially and followed up with spades or diamonds, and partner would know for sure that when you bid spades then clubs you will be 5S4c. Now when you bid clubs partner is going to struggle to guess whether you are playing in spades or clubs.

[all loomis]

if 2c is forcing, the obvious first bid. if not, 1d.

[all loomis]

phil_20686, on 2015-October-20, 06:00, said:

THis is why I dislike responding 1S here. How much easier would this auction be if you could have shown clubs initially and followed up with spades or diamonds, and partner would know for sure that when you bid spades then clubs you will be 5S4c. Now when you bid clubs partner is going to struggle to guess whether you are playing in spades or clubs.

of course. 1s response is a nonsense.

[ggwhiz]

all loomis, on 2015-October-20, 14:14, said:

of course. 1s response is a nonsense.

lol, unless you mean anything but.

A lot of people play the 1♣ opener as 2+ and anybody that I know of that plays inverted minors plays that it denies a 4-card major. And 1♦ sucks and blows at the same time.

[jogs]

nige1, on 2015-October-18, 16:36, said:

scarletv says"partners support double shows 3 spades without promising extras. With a very weak opening p might have passed."

I rank ...
1. 3♣ = NAT.
2. 3♦ = NAT.
3. 4♣ = NAT
4. 3♥ = CUE.
5. 5♣ = NAT

---

Wish it were possible to bid 3♣ and announce that it shows an opening hand.

[scarletv]

Thanks all for voting and giving your thoughts.
About 2/3 voted for 3♥.
4♣ and 3♦ got at least 6 votes each.

I have to add that it was a BBO tourney (IMP)

What happened at the table? West was thinking for a long time before he came with his bid.
Lead was ♦A ...

---

[phil_20686]

ggwhiz, on 2015-October-20, 15:56, said:

lol, unless you mean anything but.

A lot of people play the 1♣ opener as 2+ and anybody that I know of that plays inverted minors plays that it denies a 4-card major. And 1♦ sucks and blows at the same time.

Its a common treatment, its just a bad treatment IMO, at least without further sophisticated treatments. A lot of the problems are alleviated by transfers. I would get to bid 1N transfer to clubs and partner can complete with any wk NT without 4 clubs. That gives you a bid more space.

I have played lots of variations of inverted minors where you would have started with 2C on this hand. I have also played that 1c p 2M was a splinter promising 5c and 4 of the other major. Wasnt a huge fan of that as I like WJS, but it did have some successes. I play 5551 openenings now, and about 20% of my constructive system notes are to do with auctions that start 1c p 1N transfer to clubs, so its not a trivial problem.