[lamford]

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A bad result I had the other day made me reconsider my methods here. I bid 3NT and went off with 4S cold. I presume most play Lebensohl or Rubensohl here. Unlike the situation after 1NT -(2M) one does not need a 3NT bid without a stop. I bid 3NT on this hand, and a simulation suggested it was likely to be better than 4S by quite a margin, but it would be nice to consult partner. I wondered what best methods were. Perhaps:
a) (2H)-Dble-(Pass)-3S forcing
b) (2H)-Dble-(Pass)-2NT-(Pass)-3C-(Pass)-3S invitational
c) (2H)-Dble-(Pass)-3NT to play
d) (2H)-Dble-(Pass)-3H FG without four spades
e) (2H)-Dble-(Pass)-2NT-(Pass)-3C-(Pass)-3NT choice of games with 4 spades and double heart stop
f) (2H)-Dble-(Pass)-2NT-(Pass)-3C-(Pass)-3H choice of games with 4 spades and single heart stop

Any theorists out there for these common situations, please?

[Cyberyeti]

You say there's no need for a 3N bid without a stop, isn't it the most descriptive bid with say Kx, xxx, AQJx, Kxxx ?

[helene_t]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-October-13, 08:30, said:

You say there's no need for a 3N bid without a stop, isn't it the most descriptive bid with say Kx, xxx, AQJx, Kxxx ?

Paul suggests bidding 3♥ with that hand.

In response to a direct-seat double it may not matter, but if you play the same structure in response to a balancing-seat double, it is a good idea to try to avoid bidding notrump without a stopper, just in case doubler has a stopper that needs protection.

[Zelandakh]

Paul, you've read this, right?

[Cyberyeti]

helene_t, on 2015-October-13, 08:35, said:

Paul suggests bidding 3♥ with that hand.

In response to a direct-seat double it may not matter, but if you play the same structure in response to a balancing-seat double, it is a good idea to try to avoid bidding notrump without a stopper, just in case doubler has a stopper that needs protection.

It means 3♥is overworked if it's 1-3 spades, 1-4(small) hearts, it's very difficult to know where to go with some doubling hands. Being able to bid 3N without the stop means partner knows immediately that something like Axxx, x, K10xx, AQJx is huge.

I agree with your point about the balancing double, but the 3N bid would be much rarer as we balance with a double with much weaker hands short in opener's suit, so the 3N bid often would have already acted.

[Stephen Tu]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-October-13, 13:14, said:

It means 3♥is overworked if it's 1-3 spades, 1-4(small) hearts, it's very difficult to know where to go with some doubling hands. Being able to bid 3N without the stop means partner knows immediately that something like Axxx, x, K10xx, AQJx is huge.

If his 3♥ is the same as what your 3nt shows, then partner also knows that singleton is good. The question is what you would like to put in your 3H bid, that is more useful to compensate for all of:
- wrong-siding 3nt some portion of the time when partner wants to play 3nt. Sometimes partner's stopper is Kx, and the guy preempted on qjtxxx.
- having to go through alternative sequence and exposing yourself to a lead directing double/non-double of 3c when you just want to play 3nt which is fairly frequent
- maybe giving up a choice of games auction showing both 4 cds in the other major and a stopper for 3nt to allow playing in a safer 4-4 OM when one exists but not when partner doubled on 3.

What do you use direct cue and delayed cue for? What hand type does playing 3nt as no stopper allow you to bid that other schemes do not?

Quote

I agree with your point about the balancing double, but the 3N bid would be much rarer as we balance with a double with much weaker hands short in opener's suit.

Personally I don't think one can afford to shade the double a lot just because of balancing seat, over preempts. This is not a situation where preemptor's partner is known to be very weak, might be strong but misfit so it might not be your hand, and you are often playing at the 3 level. Also you have less room to sort out range, whether to be in game or not, with one level removed, which makes widening the balancing range substantially problematic.

[lamford]

Zelandakh, on 2015-October-13, 09:46, said:

Paul, you've read this, right?

I had not, and I thank you. Justin's suggestions look particularly good, and I will discuss same with one or two regular partners including Vampyr.

[Cyberyeti]

Stephen Tu, on 2015-October-13, 17:12, said:

If his 3♥ is the same as what your 3nt shows, then partner also knows that singleton is good. The question is what you would like to put in your 3H bid, that is more useful to compensate for all of:
- wrong-siding 3nt some portion of the time when partner wants to play 3nt. Sometimes partner's stopper is Kx, and the guy preempted on qjtxxx.
- having to go through alternative sequence and exposing yourself to a lead directing double/non-double of 3c when you just want to play 3nt which is fairly frequent
- maybe giving up a choice of games auction showing both 4 cds in the other major and a stopper for 3nt to allow playing in a safer 4-4 OM when one exists but not when partner doubled on 3.

What do you use direct cue and delayed cue for? What hand type does playing 3nt as no stopper allow you to bid that other schemes do not?

Exactly 4 spades without/with stop. The point is that his 3♥ as described covers some hands I'd bid 3N with, and some I wouldn't, so there's less certainty of what to do with some doubles.

Quote

Personally I don't think one can afford to shade the double a lot just because of balancing seat, over preempts. This is not a situation where preemptor's partner is known to be very weak, might be strong but misfit so it might not be your hand, and you are often playing at the 3 level. Also you have less room to sort out range, whether to be in game or not, with one level removed, which makes widening the balancing range substantially problematic.

We tend to reopen with a light double if short in opener's suit as we're more willing to trap pass over a weak 2 than most.

[awm]

Here's what I use:

3s = inv 5+S or 4s no stop
2nt..3s = inv 4s and stopper
3h = GF two suits
2nt..3h = GF 4s+stopper
3nt = to play
2nt..3nt = extras, some slam interest but NF

[iandayre]

In about 1978 George Rosencranz wrote a multi-month article in the ACBL Bulletin called "A Strong Defense Vs. Weak Twos" I started playing it soon thereafter, and I've never seen anything better. I highly recommend it if you can find a copy.

It is based on Lebensohl, so the 2NT advance requests - but does not force - doubler to bid 3C. After this start 3S shows invitational values with 4 card length. 3NT shows H stopper(s) along with 4 Spades. A direct jump to 3S over the double is invitational with 5 cards, while a direct 3NT would be to play without 4 Spades. The method agrees with the point made here that there is no need for a 3NT call without a stopper. Similar agreements are in place for direct and delayed (after first bidding 2NT Leb) cue bids by advancer. Both cues are GF, with the direct cue denying a stopper while the delayed one shows one.

I recall once having a nice hand with 4252 shape including AQxx of S, and it went 2S -Dbl - P to me. I bid 2NT, then after 3C I bid 3S on the next round. Partner bid 4D, I bid 4S and partner bid 6D! I had extras and went on to 7, making easily. My expert counterpart at the other table in Swiss Teams ended the auction by jumping to 3NT on the first round of bidding.

So assuming this hand to be a game force, advancer would start with 2NT and bid 3NT over partner's 3C.