[Zelandakh]

Well that explains Pizzagate. "Real News" certainly had an impact there. The summary seems to be that "Real News" is sensationalist rubbish that is made up to create a reaction in people and does not need to have any basis in reality. This kind of logic probably goes a long way to explaining the Right in America to non-Americans.

[barmar]

 y66, on 2017-October-25, 01:48, said:

The Republican establishment, like the House of Lords a century back and this thread, has the feel of a fated and superannuated institution that no stratagem can save?

They seemed to be doing OK until Trump got involved. Like everything else he touches.

If he were more competent, I'd almost think that he was actually trying to ruin everything.

[diana_eva]

 jjbrr, on 2017-October-25, 08:12, said:

what on earth are you raving about?

I'd guess he was trying to be sarcastic.

real news = facts is way too boring.

[macaw]

My husband was at a gun store in the late 1970's and was listening to a couple of men there who were talking about the coming 'revolution' and going on and on. Finally he chimed in and said there will never be a revolution in the US. They got huffy and wanted to know what he was based his statement on. He told them, "As long as there is Monday Night Football, and beer, there will be no revolution."

They thought about it a second and said, "Damn, you're right."

Then they started another topic entirely.

 barmar, on 2017-June-28, 13:29, said:

This is a silly argument. The government has tanks and bombers. If they wanted to seize your property by force, no amount of guns will protecet you. Even if we legalized ownership of military weapons, you're just one guy, the government has an army.

The framers obviously put in that amendment because they were citizens who revolted against their previous government, and obviously couldn't have succeeded if individuals didn't have weapons. But the world has changed since then -- such an uprising is totally infeasible now, regardless of how liberally we interpret the 2nd Amendment.

Now we depend on the rule of law to protect citizens from government tyranny.

[Al_U_Card]

A reality check and a pretty good one at that.

[kenberg]

 macaw, on 2017-October-25, 10:28, said:

My husband was at a gun store in the late 1970's and was listening to a couple of men there who were talking about the coming 'revolution' and going on and on. Finally he chimed in and said there will never be a revolution in the US. They got huffy and wanted to know what he was based his statement on. He told them, "As long as there is Monday Night Football, and beer, there will be no revolution."

They thought about it a second and said, "Damn, you're right."

Then they started another topic entirely.

You might enjoy the following: We were in Oregon visiting the granddaughter for her second birthday and, not to miss a chance, we spent some time along the Pacific coast in a motel. Mostly politics free but of course they have the *^&%$ tv on to entertain us during the free breakfast and up comes stuff about football, kneeling, standing, etc. I thought a couple fo the people were going to get into a big argument but one guy suggested "I would like the league to say that they can't play unless they stand, and then I would like to see the players not stand, and then we could all see what happens next". Everyone agreed that they had no idea what would happen next, we all returned to eating, and then we went out for a walk along the shoreline. The Pacific gets very active in October! High tide brings in thick parts of trees. 8 to 10 feet long, lifts them up, and dumps them on the beach. Much much more impressive then this stupid football argument.

[Zelandakh]

 diana_eva, on 2017-October-25, 09:47, said:

I'd guess he was trying to be sarcastic.

Are you sure? I learned a long time ago that conservative Americans say things that often sound like they must be sarcasm or irony but it turns out they actually believe in those things somehow. Amazingly this is also scarily true of some of the supposedly moderates from The Deep South I have been friends with.

 kenberg, on 2017-October-25, 14:38, said:

Everyone agreed that they had no idea what would happen next

Very simple, if the bosses tried toenforce this they would get taken to court and lose. It was established a very long time ago (see the earlier reference to Jehovah's Winesses) that you cannot force someone to do this under the current laws.

[jjbrr]

just a general thought: sarah huckabee sanders is the most loathsome and perhaps one of the most dangerous public figures in America right now, right? She seems to be completely maxed out on evil and hatred, moral bankruptcy, and pure ignorance. I have no doubt kathryn idolizes her.

[ldrews]

 jjbrr, on 2017-October-25, 17:14, said:

just a general thought: sarah huckabee sanders is the most loathsome and perhaps one of the most dangerous public figures in America right now, right? She seems to be completely maxed out on evil and hatred, moral bankruptcy, and pure ignorance. I have no doubt kathryn idolizes her.

Why? Because she is doing her job?

[jjbrr]

if her job is to be a loathsome and deplorable, dangerous public figure who seems to hate everyone who disagrees with her, completely devoid of any moral compass whatsoever, and ignorant of any sort of semblance of reality around her, then you have a great point, ldrews. she might not be the only incompetent trump appointee. thanks for clearing that up.

[Winstonm]

Aha! I have discovered a Trump accomplishment other than appointing oligarch-in-trainings to cabinet positions: fake news and the 76% of Republicans who believe him about it.

Quote

In yet another Fox interview Wednesday evening, President Donald Trump patted himself on the back for starting “this whole fake news thing.” While he said some have now “turned it around and now they’re calling stories put out by Facebook fake,” referring to deliberately false stories pushed by Russian operatives, Trump asked, “What could be more fake than CBS, and NBC, and ABC, and CNN?” He went on to say that “if you look at the level of approval of the media, of general media—if you look at it from the day I started running, to now, I’m so proud I have been able to convince people how fake it is, because it has taken a nosedive.”

[y66]

I enjoyed Wednesday's exchange between Judy Woodruff and Senator John Thune (R-SD), especially Judy's tweak about Flake's voting record compared to Thune's which Thune handled with humor and skill (as with the rest of the exchange).

I appreciate Thune's focus on his job which is to achieve "the Republican agenda" but it does seem a tad like fiddling when Rome is showing signs of serious, accelerating decline for reasons that have way more to do with Republican strength and tactics in Congress and state legislatures than with Trump and the coarseness of discussion.

[barmar]

 jjbrr, on 2017-October-25, 21:08, said:

if her job is to be a loathsome and deplorable, dangerous public figure who seems to hate everyone who disagrees with her, completely devoid of any moral compass whatsoever, and ignorant of any sort of semblance of reality around her, then you have a great point, ldrews. she might not be the only incompetent trump appointee. thanks for clearing that up.

That seems to describe Trump, too. From his perspective, she probably seems eminently competent.

[ldrews]

 barmar, on 2017-October-26, 10:56, said:

That seems to describe Trump, too. From his perspective, she probably seems eminently competent.

I am not Trump, and she seems competent to me. Her job is to represent Trump and the administration to the press and handle the press questions while maintaining the adminstration(Trump's point of view. You don't have to agree with that point of view to see that she does a competent job.

[jjbrr]

ldrews, i have no doubt you think this is competence.

Quote

Reporter: Does President Trump think white people are discriminated against?

Sanders: I don’t know. Who can truly know what another person is thinking?

Reporter: Can you ask him?

Sanders: I can, but I won’t.(1)

Reporter: Did the president lie about what the Boy Scout leaders said in praise of his speech?

Sanders: No. He said something that was not factually correct, a very different thing than a lie.

Reporter: Does he accept that Russia was involved in the election?

Sanders: “Accept”? I don’t know. I can’t say what is in his heart. I don’t have any sort of special access to him. All I can describe are the words that come out of his mouth in speeches, which I watch on TV as do the rest of you.

Reporter: Do you have anything to say about the removal of 755 diplomats from Russia?

Sanders: No.

Reporter: You said you would.

Sanders: Well, I don’t.

Reporter: Are you going to ask?

Sanders: Probably not. Not a subject that really interests me all that much, to be frank with you. If I do, though, in some fluke accident, happen to find out what the president thinks about this, I may tell you, but then again, I probably won’t.

Reporter: How does the president feel about this new green-card policy?

Sanders: I don’t know. Why do you keep asking me what the president thinks? We are clearly two separate people.

Reporter: How do you see your job?

Sanders: My job is to convey the president’s message.

Reporter: What does the president think about Sen. Jeff Flake’s criticism?

Sanders: On that, as on any subject, I don’t know what the president thinks. How could I? Everything he says and does comes to me as a total and unpleasant surprise. In fact, if you find out what he thinks on any given subject, please do not tell me. If I wanted to know, I would ask. And I have no plans to ask. Thanks guys, see you tomorrow, when I will read a note from a child named Fern who wants President Trump to come butcher her prize pig.

[ldrews]

 jjbrr, on 2017-October-26, 12:44, said:

ldrews, i have no doubt you think this is competence.

So, do you think Sanders has an obligation to be direct, non-evasive, and truthful at the expense of her employer, the POTUS? Whatever gave you that idea? Did you just fall off the turnip truck?

[jjbrr]

I will point out those exchanges are mostly satire. But who really knows anymore?

[barmar]

 ldrews, on 2017-October-26, 12:35, said:

I am not Trump, and she seems competent to me. Her job is to represent Trump and the administration to the press and handle the press questions while maintaining the adminstration(Trump's point of view. You don't have to agree with that point of view to see that she does a competent job.

True. Since Trump generally wants to be evasive with the press, why should we expect anything else from his press secretary? Her job is to be his mouthpiece.

For the most part, Trump is his own press secretary, but he does it through his tweets, not the briefing room.

[Winstonm]

 jjbrr, on 2017-October-26, 12:44, said:

ldrews, i have no doubt you think this is competence.

My guess is that he is a Bannon acolyte so 'nuff said.

[jjbrr]

I, myself, would never trust a sentient cirrhotic liver.