BBO Discussion Forums: Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 1074 Pages +
  • « First
  • 246
  • 247
  • 248
  • 249
  • 250
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#4941 User is offline   ldrews 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 880
  • Joined: 2014-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pátzcuaro, Mexico

Posted 2017-February-26, 07:19

View Postawm, on 2017-February-26, 01:35, said:

Some articles about rural vs. urban divide in the election:

The Atlantic
Washington Post
NY Times
NPR
NBC

I know, I know, all "fake news"?

The main point is pretty consistent, that Trump ran up huge margins in the rural areas while Clinton ran up huge margins in the cities (but maybe not quite as huge as Obama four years before). Yes, I know it's not true that 100% of Trump voters are rural, but the major cities voted very heavily for Clinton. The Trump voters you see interviewed on TV (who are basically the Trump voters who aren't consistent Republicans who turn out every election) don't live in cities and in general don't particularly like or respect the people who live in cities. They will tell you why they voted for Trump -- the number one reason is they think he will restore jobs to "small town America"; you will also hear some vitriol about how awful Clinton is (usually repeating some falsehoods about her), and some pseudo-racist stuff about muslims and Mexicans. Of course there are many other people who voted for Trump, and some of them defy the usual demographics, but while something like 1% of Trump voters are black (for example) that doesn't invalidate the point that black voters chose Clinton by overwhelming margins and that the "typical Trump voter" is indeed white (and probably doesn't have a college degree, and probably doesn't live in a major city or in the state of California).


Not fake news but clearly biased news, with the possible exception of NPR. The Washington Post and NY Times are clearly heavily biased in my opinion. Editorial selection, phrasing of headlines, biased adjectives in the body.

OK, if by "rural" you mean everywhere outside the megacities, then I can agree. However, as you point out, even megacities comtain Trump voters. And as the exit polls showed, more people with college degrees voted for Trump than for Clinton by a narrow margin. Of course, more people don't have college degrees than do so of course more Trump voters don't have college degrees than do. The same is true of Clinton voters, perhaps even more so since her target demographic groups tend not to have as many college degrees as Trumps demographic groups (blacks+latinos vs whites).

Where Clinton excelled was with Blacks and Latinos. Which was her strategy. But it wasn't enough.

However, I don't think this election was about race. I think it was about populism vs statism. At the CPAC conference recently, Steve Bannon was quoted as saying that their daily focus was on "deconstructing the Administrative State". I would have called it the "Nanny State". This is a focus that I whole-heartedly support.

One of the reasons that I support Trump is that I think he will improve the job situation for all areas of the US, not just small towns.
0

#4942 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,496
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2017-February-26, 09:26

From What Does Steve Bannon Want? (Feb 25 2017) by Christopher Caldwell:

Quote

President Trump presents a problem to those who look at politics in terms of systematic ideologies. He is either disinclined or unable to lay out his agenda in that way. So perhaps it was inevitable that Mr. Trump’s chief strategist, Stephen K. Bannon, who does have a gift for thinking systematically, would be so often invoked by Mr. Trump’s opponents. They need him not just as a hate object but as a heuristic, too. There may never be a “Trumpism,” and unless one emerges, the closest we may come to understanding this administration is as an expression of “Bannonism.”

Mr. Bannon, 63, has won a reputation for abrasive brilliance at almost every stop in his unorthodox career — as a naval officer, Goldman Sachs mergers specialist, entertainment-industry financier, documentary screenwriter and director, Breitbart News cyber-agitprop impresario and chief executive of Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign. One Harvard Business School classmate described him to The Boston Globe as “top three in intellectual horsepower in our class — perhaps the smartest.” Benjamin Harnwell of the Institute for Human Dignity, a Catholic organization in Rome, calls him a “walking bibliography.” Perhaps because Mr. Bannon came late to conservatism, turning his full-time energy to political matters only after the Sept. 11 attacks, he radiates an excitement about it that most of his conservative contemporaries long ago lost.

One month into the Trump administration, Mr. Bannon has already made his influence felt. He helped draft the president’s Inaugural Address, acquired a seat on the National Security Council and reportedly was the main force behind the president’s stalled ban on travel from seven predominantly Muslim countries. Reports that the administration has considered designating the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization echo Mr. Bannon’s own longtime preoccupation with the group, as both a screenwriter and a talk-radio host.

Many accounts of Mr. Bannon paint him as a cartoon villain or internet troll come to life, as a bigot, an anti-Semite, a misogynist, a crypto-fascist. The former House speaker Nancy Pelosi and Representative Jerrold Nadler, Democrat of New York, have even called him a “white nationalist.” While he is certainly a hard-line conservative of some kind, the evidence that he is an extremist of a more troubling sort has generally been either massaged, misread or hyped up.

There may be good reasons to worry about Mr. Bannon, but they are not the ones everyone is giving. It does not make Mr. Bannon a fascist that he happens to know who the 20th-century Italian extremist Julius Evola is. It does not make Mr. Bannon a racist that he described Breitbart as “the platform for the alt-right” — a broad and imprecise term that applies to a wide array of radicals, not just certain white supremacist groups.

Nor does it make Mr. Bannon a fringe character that during the meetings of the Conservative Political Action Conference in 2013 and 2014, he hosted rival panel discussions called the Uninvited — although it did show a relish for the role of ideological bad boy. Mr. Bannon’s panels included such mainstream figures as the former House speaker Newt Gingrich and the former Bush administration attorney general Michael Mukasey, and discussed such familiar Republican preoccupations as military preparedness and the 2012 attacks on the United States mission in Benghazi, Libya. It wasn’t much different from watching Fox News.

Where Mr. Bannon does veer sharply from recent mainstream Republicanism is in his all-embracing nationalism. He speaks of sovereignty, economic nationalism, opposition to globalization and finding common ground with Brexit supporters and other groups hostile to the transnational European Union. On Thursday, at this year’s Conservative Political Action Conference, he described the “center core” of Trump administration philosophy as the belief that the United States is more than an economic unit in a borderless word. It is “a nation with a culture” and “a reason for being.”

So some of the roots of Mr. Bannon’s ideology, like the roots of Mr. Trump’s popularity, are to be found in the disappointed hopes of the global economy. But Mr. Bannon, unlike Mr. Trump, has a detailed idea, an explanation, of how American sovereignty was lost, and of what to do about it. It is the same idea that Tea Party activists have: A class of regulators in the government has robbed Americans of their democratic prerogatives. That class now constitutes an “administrative state” that operates to empower itself and enrich its crony-capitalist allies.

When Mr. Bannon spoke on Thursday of “deconstructing the administrative state,” it may have sounded like gobbledygook outside the hall, but it was an electrifying profession of faith for the attendees. It is through Mr. Bannon that Trumpism can be converted from a set of nostalgic laments and complaints into a program for overhauling the government.

Mr. Bannon adds something personal and idiosyncratic to this Tea Party mix. He has a theory of historical cycles that can be considered elegantly simple or dangerously simplistic. It is a model laid out by William Strauss and Neil Howe in two books from the 1990s. Their argument assumes an 80- to 100-year cycle divided into roughly 20-year “highs,” “awakenings,” “unravelings” and “crises.” The American Revolution, the Civil War, the New Deal, World War II — Mr. Bannon has said for years that we’re due for another crisis about now. His documentary about the 2008 financial collapse, “Generation Zero,” released in 2010, uses the Strauss-Howe model to explain what happened, and concludes with Mr. Howe himself saying, “History is seasonal, and winter is coming.”

Mr. Bannon’s views reflect a transformation of conservatism over the past decade or so. You can trace this transformation in the films he has made. His 2004 documentary, “In the Face of Evil,” is an orthodox tribute to the Republican Party hero Ronald Reagan. But “Generation Zero,” half a decade later, is a strange hybrid. The financial crash has intervened. Mr. Bannon’s film features predictable interviews with think-tank supply siders and free marketers fretting about big government. But new, less orthodox voices creep in, too, from the protectionist newscaster Lou Dobbs to the investment manager Barry Ritholtz. They question whether the free market is altogether free. Mr. Ritholtz says that the outcome of the financial crisis has been “socialism for the wealthy but capitalism for everybody else.”

By 2014, Mr. Bannon’s own ideology had become centered on this distrust. He was saying such things about capitalism himself. “Think about it,” he said in a talk hosted by the Institute for Human Dignity. “Not one criminal charge has ever been brought to any bank executive associated with 2008 crisis.” He warned against “the Ayn Rand or the Objectivist School of libertarian capitalism,” by which he meant “a capitalism that really looks to make people commodities, and to objectify people.” Capitalism, he said, ought to rest on a “Judeo-Christian” foundation.

If so, this was bad news for the Republican Party. By the time Mr. Bannon spoke, Ayn Rand-style capitalism was all that remained of its Reagan-era agenda. Free-market thinking had swallowed the party whole, and its Judeo-Christian preoccupations — “a nation with a culture” and “a reason for being” — along with it. A business orientation was what donors wanted.

But voters never more than tolerated it. It was Pat Buchanan who in his 1992 run for president first called on Republicans to value jobs and communities over profits. An argument consumed the party over whether this was a better-rounded vision of society or just the grousing of a reactionary. After a generation, Mr. Buchanan has won that argument. By 2016 his views on trade and migration, once dismissed as crackpot, were spreading so fast that everyone in the party had embraced them — except its elected officials and its establishment presidential candidates.

Mr. Bannon does not often go into detail about what Judeo-Christian culture is, but he knows one thing it is not: Islam. Like most Americans, he believes that Islamism — the extremist political movement — is a dangerous adversary. More controversially he holds that, since this political movement is generated within the sphere of Islam, the growth of Islam — the religion — is itself a problem with which American authorities should occupy themselves. This is a view that was emphatically repudiated by Presidents Obama and George W. Bush.

Mr. Bannon has apparently drawn his own views on the subject from intensive, if not necessarily varied, reading. The thinkers he has engaged with in this area tend to be hot and polemical rather than cool and detached. They include the provocateur Pamela Geller, a campaigner against the “Ground Zero Mosque” who once suggested the State Department was “essentially being run by Islamic supremacists”; her sometime collaborator Robert Spencer, the director of the website Jihad Watch, with whom she heads an organization called Stop Islamization of America; and the former Department of Homeland Security official Philip Haney, who has argued that officials in the Obama administration had compromised “the security of citizens for the ideological rigidity of political correctness.”

President Trump being unpopular among intellectuals, any thinker in his cabinet will be, at some level, a nonconformist, a rebel or an individualist. That may yet make things interesting for the country. It will certainly make Washington a hostile environment for Mr. Bannon. Many policy intellectuals in the capital have paid a steep price in swallowed misgivings and trimmed convictions to get to the place that Mr. Bannon has somehow blown into town and usurped. He never had to compromise or even modify his principles. His boss didn’t even get a majority of the popular vote. Establishment conservatives may be prone to mistake their jealousy for a principled conviction that Mr. Bannon is unsocialized and dangerous.

Is he? Last summer the historian Ronald Radosh contributed to this image with his (later contested) recollection that, years ago, Mr. Bannon, in the only conversation the two ever had, described himself as a “Leninist” who wanted to “bring everything crashing down.”

But Mr. Bannon’s ideology, whatever it may be, does not wholly capture what drives him, says the screenwriter Julia Jones. Starting in the early 1990s, Ms. Jones and Mr. Bannon began writing screenplays together, and did so for a decade and a half. She is one of the few longtime collaborators in his otherwise peripatetic career. As Ms. Jones sees it, a more reliable key to his worldview lies in his military service. “He has a respect for duty,” she said in early February. “The word he has used a lot is ‘dharma.’ ” Mr. Bannon found the concept of dharma in the Bhagavad Gita, she recalls. It can describe one’s path in life or one’s place in the universe.

When Mr. Bannon came to Hollywood, Ms. Jones says, he was less political. For two years, according to Ms. Jones, the two of them worked on the outline of a 26-part television series about seekers after the secrets of the human self, from Arthur Conan Doyle to Nietzsche to Madame Blavatsky to Ramakrishna to the Baal Shem Tov to Geronimo. “It was his idea,” she said. “He assembled all the people.”

But the Sept. 11 attacks, Ms. Jones says, changed him, and their collaboration did not survive his growing engagement with politics. Speaking of his films, she says, “He developed a kind of propaganda-type tone of voice that I found offensive.” Ms. Jones is a literary person, left-liberal in politics. She regrets that Mr. Bannon “has found a home in nationalism.” But she does not believe he is any kind of anarchist, let alone a racist.

Those focused on Mr. Bannon’s ideology are probably barking up the wrong tree. There are plenty of reasons for concern about Mr. Bannon, but they have less to do with where he stands on the issues than with who he is as a person. He is a newcomer to political power and, in fact, relatively new to an interest in politics. He is willing to break with authority. While he does not embrace any of the discredited ideologies of the last century, he is attached to a theory of history’s cycles that is, to put it politely, untested. Most ominously, he is an intellectual in politics excited by grand theories — a combination that has produced unpredictable results before.

We’ll see how it works out. Barack Obama, in a similar way, used to allude to the direction and the “arc” of history. Some may find the two theories of history equally naïve and unrealistic. Others may see a mitigating element in the cyclical nature of Mr. Bannon’s view. A progressive who believes history is more or less linear is fighting for immortality when he enters the political arena. A conservative who believes history is cyclical is fighting only for a role in managing, say, the next 20 or 80 years. Then his work will be undone, as everyone’s is eventually.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#4943 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,080
  • Joined: 2005-May-16
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-February-26, 09:48

View Posty66, on 2017-February-26, 09:26, said:

From What Does Steve Bannon Want? (Feb 25 2017) by Christopher Caldwell:

Sounds like a man for all seasons ;)
The end of plutocratic socialism (profits are private and losses are subsidized) and a turn away from casino capitalism cannot be bad for any but the extremely well-to-do. If they (Trump and Bannon ...Trannon? Or perhaps Bump) can satisfy the military-intelligence communities then they may make it through alive unlike their last predecessor to challenge the status quo.
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
0

#4944 User is offline   cherdano 

  • 5555
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,516
  • Joined: 2003-September-04
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-February-26, 10:31

View Postldrews, on 2017-February-25, 17:53, said:

Secure the US/Mexico border to reduce/eliminate illegal aliens from entering the US and undercutting wage rates. Increases upward pressure on wages for US working/middle class.

So what did Friedberg, Hunt (1995) get wrong?
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
1

#4945 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,496
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2017-February-26, 10:59

View PostAl_U_Card, on 2017-February-26, 09:48, said:

Sounds like a man for all seasons ;)
The end of plutocratic socialism (profits are private and losses are subsidized) and a turn away from casino capitalism cannot be bad for any but the extremely well-to-do. If they (Trump and Bannon ...Trannon? Or perhaps Bump) can satisfy the military-intelligence communities then they may make it through alive unlike their last predecessor to challenge the status quo.

Definitely an interesting guy. "History is seasonal and winter is coming"? The guy has read Max Weber:

Quote

Ahead of us is not the bloom of summer, but first a polar night of icy darkness and hardship, whichever group may win the battle of the day. For where there is nothing, not only the emperor but the proletarian too has lost his chance. Once this night slowly begins to cede, who then is going to be alive of those whose lent has now apparently blossomed in such abundance. And what will have become of all of you within yourselves? Embitterment or barbarism, simple dumb acceptance of the world and one's place in it, or the third and by no means rarest: mystical escapism by those who have the gift for it, or who -- as happens so often and is so miserable to see -- strain themselves into the fashion?


and, it seems, Patrick Buchannan.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#4946 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,066
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2017-February-26, 12:34

View Postldrews, on 2017-February-26, 07:19, said:

Not fake news but clearly biased news, with the possible exception of NPR. The Washington Post and NY Times are clearly heavily biased in my opinion. Editorial selection, phrasing of headlines, biased adjectives in the body.

OK, if by "rural" you mean everywhere outside the megacities, then I can agree. However, as you point out, even megacities comtain Trump voters. And as the exit polls showed, more people with college degrees voted for Trump than for Clinton by a narrow margin. Of course, more people don't have college degrees than do so of course more Trump voters don't have college degrees than do. The same is true of Clinton voters, perhaps even more so since her target demographic groups tend not to have as many college degrees as Trumps demographic groups (blacks+latinos vs whites).

Where Clinton excelled was with Blacks and Latinos. Which was her strategy. But it wasn't enough.

However, I don't think this election was about race. I think it was about populism vs statism. At the CPAC conference recently, Steve Bannon was quoted as saying that their daily focus was on "deconstructing the Administrative State". I would have called it the "Nanny State". This is a focus that I whole-heartedly support.

One of the reasons that I support Trump is that I think he will improve the job situation for all areas of the US, not just small towns.


Perhaps it will surprise you that I agree that the Washington Post could use a little more discipline in their headline writing and their phrasing. I am a subsriber, I read it daily, and there are times I feel I should write in. And a couple of times that I have done so.

However.

This does not remotely justify all of this stuff about fake news, it does not justify the baring of reporters, and it certainly does not justify the overall hostility toward the media.

It has been duly noted that I often relate personal experiences. Here is another. When I was in high school we were given an assignment. We were to pick a topic of national news (our choice) and we were to read three news magazines to see how they covered it. As I recall, I picked Time, Newsweek and U.S. News and World Report. Hey. I was not an intellectual. And anyway, back then the Atlantic was the Atlantic Monthly and mostly published fiction. This was a very good assignment for someone who was 15 or 16. The three mags each had viewpoints, as did the writers. Big deal. This is not something to go to war over. You read what different people say and you find they have different views. The danger is not that writers present the story from their viewpoint, the danger is that someone with power wages war on opinions he does not like. The media is not "The enemy of the American people".

From the beginning, my biggest objections to Trump have been Trump himself. I don't much like his policies either, but generally I am ok with having people in power who think differently than I do. I am not ok with them waging war against the free expression of opinion. If I am wrong about something, or someone else is wrong, we will get that sorted out, maybe not always correctly. But I see Trump as a belligerent hostile force with no regard for anyone but himself. We expect our president to have a forceful personality, nobody rises to such a position without being pushy. But I have, from the beginning, seen Trump as a wholly different sort. His supporters see this as a good thing. I do not.

A guy does not have to be from the radical left or any form of the left, one does not have to be a Dem, or read the Washington Post, to find Trump repulsive. We will be much the worse for it if we let him succeed in neutering the media.
Ken
7

#4947 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,128
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2017-February-26, 13:03

IMO, the views of Christopher Hitchens (RIP) deserved respect. (Although, I had some reservations when he was quoted in another thread: there, his argument seemed to be based on evidence from a select minority of eye-witnesses).

He seemed to dislike Donald but to hate Hilary.

https://www.youtube....h?v=Mchag1zto2U
0

#4948 User is offline   ldrews 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 880
  • Joined: 2014-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pátzcuaro, Mexico

Posted 2017-February-26, 14:16

View Postkenberg, on 2017-February-26, 12:34, said:


This does not remotely justify all of this stuff about fake news, it does not justify the baring of reporters, and it certainly does not justify the overall hostility toward the media.


It seems to me that the media is one power center and the President is another. Per the 1st Amendment the President/government may not interfere with the free expression of opinions.
However, that does not imply that the President/government must cooperate with the press, nor does it prevent the President from expressing his opinion of the press. There is no legal requirement
that the President even hold a press conference (I believe before Truman they did not), much less have to invite everyone. The President has every right to cherry pick the attendees, just as the
press has every right to publish what they want within slander and defamation bounds.

It is up to you and I to support whomever we want and to express our opinions regarding the appropriateness of each party's actions. To me, this is just a power battle between power centers. We
probably have not seen anything yet.
0

#4949 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,080
  • Joined: 2005-May-16
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-February-26, 14:30

View Posty66, on 2017-February-26, 10:59, said:

Definitely an interesting guy. "History is seasonal and winter is coming"? The guy has read Max Weber:



and, it seems, Patrick Buchannan.

Consider the most recent movers and shakers within the "establishment". From Ruben and Sommers to Cheney and Rumsfeld etc. there will be forces in play that bend the ambient conditions to their particular slant. Free exchange and an unfettered press are key and the internet and media are under assault, especially since 9-11.
Free thinkers of all stripes (Ted Sorenson anyone?) do make a difference in the battle to free men's minds from the tyranny and oppression of a crooked system. Straightening it out is another thing entirely.
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
0

#4950 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,496
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2017-February-26, 14:52

From The Reichstag Warning (Feb 26, 2017) by Timothy Snyder NYRB

Quote

On February 27, 1933 the German Parliament building burned, Adolf Hitler rejoiced, and the Nazi era began. Hitler, who had just been named head of a government that was legally formed after the democratic elections of the previous November, seized the opportunity to change the system. “There will be no mercy now,” he exulted. “Anyone standing in our way will be cut down.”

The next day, at Hitler’s advice and urging, the German president issued a decree “for the protection of the people and the state.” It deprived all German citizens of basic rights such as freedom of expression and assembly and made them subject to “preventative detention” by the police. A week later, the Nazi party, having claimed that the fire was the beginning of a major terror campaign by the Left, won a decisive victory in parliamentary elections. Nazi paramilitaries and the police then began to arrest political enemies and place them in concentration camps. Shortly thereafter, the new parliament passed an “enabling act” that allowed Hitler to rule by decree.

After 1933, the Nazi regime made use of a supposed threat of terrorism against Germans from an imaginary international Jewish conspiracy. After five years of repressing Jews, in 1938 the German state began to deport them. On October 27 of that year, the German police arrested about 17,000 Jews from Poland and deported them across the Polish border. A young man named Herschel Grynszpan, sent to Paris by his parents, received a desperate postcard from his sister after his family was forced across the Polish border. He bought a gun, went to the German embassy, and shot a German diplomat. He called this an act of revenge for the suffering of his family and his people. Nazi propagandists presented it as evidence of an international Jewish conspiracy preparing a terror campaign against the entire German people. Josef Goebbels used it as the pretext to organize the events we remember as Kristallnacht, a massive national pogrom of Jews that left hundreds dead.

The Reichstag fire shows how quickly a modern republic can be transformed into an authoritarian regime. There is nothing new, to be sure, in the politics of exception. The American Founding Fathers knew that the democracy they were creating was vulnerable to an aspiring tyrant who might seize upon some dramatic event as grounds for the suspension of our rights. As James Madison nicely put it, tyranny arises “on some favorable emergency.” What changed with the Reichstag fire was the use of terrorism as a catalyst for regime change. To this day, we do not know who set the Reichstag fire: the lone anarchist executed by the Nazis or, as new scholarship by Benjamin Hett suggests, the Nazis themselves. What we do know is that it created the occasion for a leader to eliminate all opposition.

In 1989, two centuries after our Constitution was promulgated, the man who is now our president wrote that “civil liberties end when an attack on our safety begins.” For much of the Western world, that was a moment when both security and liberty seemed to be expanding. 1989 was a year of liberation, as communist regimes came to an end in eastern Europe and new democracies were established. Yet that wave of democratization has since fallen under the glimmering shadow of the burning Reichstag. The aspiring tyrants of today have not forgotten the lesson of 1933: that acts of terror—real or fake, provoked or accidental—can provide the occasion to deal a death blow to democracy.

The most consequential example is Russia, so admired by Donald Trump. When Vlaimir V. Putin was appointed prime minister in August 1999, the former KGB officer had an approval rating of 2 percent. Then, a month later, the bombs began to explode in apartment buildings in Moscow and several other Russian cities, killing hundreds of citizens and causing widespread fear. There were numerous indications that this was a campaign organized by the KGB’s heir, now known as the FSB. Some of its officers were caught red-handed (and then released) by their peers. A Russian parliamentarian announced one of the “terror” attacks several days before the bomb actually exploded.

Putin blamed Muslim terrorists and began the war in Chechnya that made him popular. He thereafter exploited more terrorist attacks to consolidate his rule: three years later, Russian security forces ended up gassing to death Russian civilians in a botched response to an attack at a Moscow theater. Putin used the negative press coverage as a justification for seizing control of television. In 2004, after the Beslan massacre, in which terrorists occupied a school and killed a large number of parents and children during a violent confrontation with Russian forces, Putin abolished the position of elected regional governors. And so the current Russian regime was built.

Once an authoritarian regime is established, the threat of terrorism can be used to deepen repression, or indeed to promote it abroad. In 2013 and 2014 the Russian media spread hysterical reports about a non-existent Ukrainian terrorist threat as the Russian army prepared and then fought a war in Ukraine. In 2015, Russia hacked into a French television channel, pretended to be ISIS, and broadcast messages apparently intended to frighten the French population into voting for the National Front, the far-right party financially supported by Russia (and whose leader, Marine Le Pen, is expected to reach the second round of the French presidential elections to be held this April and May). In 2016, the Russian media and Russian diplomats engaged in a large-scale disinformation campaign in Germany, spreading a false tale about refugees raping a girl of Russian origin—again with the likely aim of helping the German far right.

The use of real or imagined terrorist threats to create or consolidate authoritarian regimes has become increasingly frequent worldwide. In Syria, Russia’s client Bashar al-Assad used the presence of ISIS to portray any opposition to his regime as “terrorists.” Our president has admired the methods of rule of both Assad and Putin. In Turkey, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has used the July 2016 coup attempt—which he has called “terrorism supported by the West”—to justify the arrest of tens of thousands of judges, teachers, university professors, and to call for a referendum this spring that could give him sweeping new powers over the parliament and the judiciary.

It is aspiring tyrants who say that “civil liberties end when an attack on our safety begins.” Conversely, leaders who wish to preserve the rule of law find other ways to speak about real terrorist threats, and certainly do not invent them or deliberately make them worse.

In this respect, the Bush administration’s reaction to the September 11, 2001 attacks was not as awful as it might have been. To be sure, 9/11 was used to justify the vast expansion of NSA spying and the torture of foreign detainees. It also became the specious pretext for an ill-considered invasion of Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of people, spread terrorism throughout the Middle East, and ended the American century. But at least the Bush administration did not claim that Muslims as a whole were responsible, nor try to change the basic rules of the political game in the United States. Had it done so, and succeeded, we might already today be living in a post-democratic country.

If we know the history of terror manipulation, we can recognize the danger signs, and be prepared to react. It is already worrying that the president speaks unfavorably of democracy, while admiring foreign manipulators of terror. It is also of concern that the administration speaks of terrorist attacks that never took place, whether in Bowling Green or Sweden, while banning citizens from seven countries that have never been tied to any attack in the United States.

It is alarming that in a series of catastrophic executive policy decisions—the president’s Muslim travel ban, his selection of Steve Bannon as his main political adviser, his short-lived appointment of Michael Flynn as national security adviser, his proposal to move the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem—there seems to be a single common element: the stigmatization and provocation of Muslims. In rhetoric and action, the Trump administration has aggrandized “radical Islamic terror” thus making what Madison called a “favorable emergency” more likely.

It is the government’s job to promote both freedom and safety. If we face again a terrorist attack—or what seems to be a terrorist attack, or what the government calls a terrorist attack—we must hold the Trump administration responsible for our security. In that moment of fear and grief, when the pulse of politics might suddenly change, we must also be ready to mobilize for our constitutional rights. The Reichstag fire has long been an example for tyrants; it should today be a warning for citizens. It was the burning of the Reichstag that disabused Hannah Arendt of the “opinion that one can simply be a bystander.” Best to learn that now, rather than waiting for the flames.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#4951 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,080
  • Joined: 2005-May-16
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-February-26, 15:12

View Posty66, on 2017-February-26, 14:52, said:

From The Reichstag Warning (Feb 26, 2017) by Timothy Snyder NYRB

Well, false flag ops have existed since warring factions could make use of them. The US has experience in this and doesn't need Trump to make them happen. Only a strong, skeptical and free populace can resist manipulation by fear. Where would you say we are at, right about now?
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
0

#4952 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,496
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2017-February-26, 18:17

View PostAl_U_Card, on 2017-February-26, 15:12, said:

Well, false flag ops have existed since warring factions could make use of them. The US has experience in this and doesn't need Trump to make them happen. Only a strong, skeptical and free populace can resist manipulation by fear. Where would you say we are at, right about now?

This feels more like a Bannon/Trump riff on The Producers than a Reichstag fire in the offing to me. Trump has way more power to destabilize the U.S. and the world than Dick Shawn had. It's going to be a long four years.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#4953 User is offline   ldrews 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 880
  • Joined: 2014-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pátzcuaro, Mexico

Posted 2017-February-26, 18:37

View Posty66, on 2017-February-26, 18:17, said:

This feels more like a Bannon/Trump riff on The Producers than a Reichstag fire in the offing to me. Trump has way more power to destabilize the U.S. and the world than Dick Shawn had. It's going to be a long four years.


Any significant and rapid change of direction of the ship of state is destabilizing. The harder the turn the more bucking and shudders the ship experiences. Big ships are not designed for fast turns.
0

#4954 User is offline   Trinidad 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Joined: 2005-October-09
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2017-February-27, 08:11

View Postldrews, on 2017-February-26, 18:37, said:

Any significant and rapid change of direction of the ship of state is destabilizing. The harder the turn the more bucking and shudders the ship experiences. Big ships are not designed for fast turns.

So perhaps it wasn't such a bright idea to vote a race driver in as captain of such a ship.

In essence, what you are saying is: "the USA is not a company". Where have I heard that before?

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
0

#4955 User is offline   ldrews 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 880
  • Joined: 2014-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pátzcuaro, Mexico

Posted 2017-February-27, 09:09

View PostTrinidad, on 2017-February-27, 08:11, said:

So perhaps it wasn't such a bright idea to vote a race driver in as captain of such a ship.

In essence, what you are saying is: "the USA is not a company". Where have I heard that before?

Rik


You are right, the USA is not a company. The US has put a CEO without much political experience in charge of the ship. I would expect some gaffes and mistakes during the initial learning phase. We will see how quickly Trump learns, if at all.
0

#4956 User is offline   jogs 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,316
  • Joined: 2011-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:student of the game

Posted 2017-February-27, 09:10

Steve Jobs seeks A+ people for his team. Jobs says A+ people are worth 50 to 100 average persons. Of course most of the progressive left posters on this forum consider themselves A+ people. Unfortunately there are many more C and D people than A+ people. While the A+ have done well, the C's and D's have been left behind for the last 30 years. The information age has passed them by. The republican party has ignored these people for 150 years. The democrats have ignored these people for the last 50 years. Donald Trump will be the champion of the C and D group.
0

#4957 User is offline   PassedOut 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,662
  • Joined: 2006-February-21
  • Location:Upper Michigan
  • Interests:Music, films, computer programming, politics, bridge

Posted 2017-February-27, 09:56

We'll soon see if Trump intends to keep his promise to rebuild the US infrastructure instead of throwing huge additional sums at the US military. I'm not optimistic, but will watch his speech tomorrow night.
The growth of wisdom may be gauged exactly by the diminution of ill temper. — Friedrich Nietzsche
The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists — that is why they invented hell. — Bertrand Russell
0

#4958 User is offline   barmar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 21,422
  • Joined: 2004-August-21
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-February-27, 10:31

View Postldrews, on 2017-February-27, 09:09, said:

You are right, the USA is not a company. The US has put a CEO without much political experience in charge of the ship. I would expect some gaffes and mistakes during the initial learning phase. We will see how quickly Trump learns, if at all.

Would any responsible organization use on-the-job training for an important position? Why are you willing to brush this off so cavalierly for one of the most critical jobs in the world? When he makes "gaffest and mistakes", they significantly impact the lives of millions of people.

#4959 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,866
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2017-February-27, 10:34

View Postldrews, on 2017-February-27, 09:09, said:

You are right, the USA is not a company. The US has put a CEO without much political experience in charge of the ship. I would expect some gaffes and mistakes during the initial learning phase. We will see how quickly Trump learns, if at all.

He is a 70 year old narcissist who doesn't read books, wants all briefings to be no more than bullet points, won't allow briefings to take more than 15 minutes (because of his attention span) and can't stop retweeting stories from Fox News, and you think he can learn??????????

He couldn't handle normal school as a child, so had to be sent to a 'military academy', where, due to being a big kid with a very rich father, he was a bully...he is actually proud of having physically intimidated a teacher. He belittled his brother, who was 'only' an airline pilot and who was an alcoholic, because he wasn't a 'killer'. Clearly, he sees himself as a 'killer', bigly.

Meanwhile, his main adviser is openly attempting to destroy what there is of democracy in the US. Trump seems to lack any basic understanding of anything other than the imperative to make everything about himself, so probably neither cares nor understands what Bannon is trying to do. So long as Bannon provides the Leader with his daily does of applause, the Leader will obediently jump through all of the hoops placed before him, thinking all the time that he is in control.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#4960 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,866
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2017-February-27, 10:42

View PostPassedOut, on 2017-February-27, 09:56, said:

We'll soon see if Trump intends to keep his promise to rebuild the US infrastructure instead of throwing huge additional sums at the US military. I'm not optimistic, but will watch his speech tomorrow night.

You do realize, I trust, that his campaign promises on infrastructure involved partnerships with billionaires, where the billionaires are to be given the right to get their money back, with profits? Toll roads and bridges, not replacing lead water pipes in impoverished municipalities? He has no plan for doing anything that cannot make a profit for the rich.

New highway bridge? Sure. Replace aging lead water pipes, a la Flint? No....where's the money in that?

So in fact, his infrastructure plan is arguably worse than no plan at all. By doing what he proposes, politicians, especially republicans, can claim that they have done something, and put the really needed infrastructure off indefinitely, while attending all kinds of ribbon-cutting, ground-breaking ceremonies in their areas....and any bets on whether there will be a correlation between where the billionaires get to earn their profits and where republican politicians hold office?
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

  • 1074 Pages +
  • « First
  • 246
  • 247
  • 248
  • 249
  • 250
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

41 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 41 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. Google,
  2. Facebook