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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#21121 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2023-September-12, 04:44

View Postpilowsky, on 2023-September-11, 15:55, said:


I suspect this is because the demographic was that many were "people like us" from Europe.
This starts to fall away in the post Vietnam period 1970's.



Bullshit

In the United States, the concept of "people like us" has been remarkably fluid

The English colonists had incredibly racist attitudes towards those swarthy Germans who were settling in Pennsylvania. However, a few years later they were both able to make common cause over the Irish who were moving-in in droves. And then of course, all three were able to unite against the Italians - who themselves were were more than happy to join up to deal with the Jews...

A few years back, one of my co-workers wandered by my office and started into a political rant about diversity training and how whites were being discriminated against.
And I told that yes, I agreed, but I was surprised that he felt so.

He expressed some surprise and asked me what I mean and I told him "You're an Italian. WOPs aren't white. Me, I'm English. I'm white. You're not. So why are you so worked up about this"

Got sent to HR for that one, but it was so worth it...
Alderaan delenda est
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#21122 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2023-September-12, 07:27

View Posthrothgar, on 2023-September-12, 04:44, said:

Bullshit

In the United States, the concept of "people like us" has been remarkably fluid

The English colonists had incredibly racist attitudes towards those swarthy Germans who were settling in Pennsylvania. However, a few years later they were both able to make common cause over the Irish who were moving in the droves. And then of course, all three were able to unite against the Italians - who themselves were were more than happy to join up to deal with the Jews...

A few years back, one of my co-workers wandered by my office and started into a political rant about diversity training and how whites were being discriminated against.
And I told that yes, I agreed, but I was surprised that he felt so.

He expressed some surprise and asked me what I mean and I told him "You're an Italian. WOPs aren't white. Me, I'm English. I'm white. You're not. So why are you so worked up about this"

Got sent to HR for that one, but it was so worth it...


I like it.

If anyone was to be sent to HR it should have been him for politicizing at the workplace. Or, if he feels the need to do that, he should not run off to HR to complain about how the discussion goes.

Good going, my congratulations.
Ken
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#21123 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2023-September-13, 02:12

The Hill said:

"Everything that's happening with Trump is politically motivated persecution of one's political rival, that's what it is," Putin said.

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#21124 User is offline   garfinkle 

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Posted 2023-September-19, 17:54

If current polls are to be believed, there is a significant proportion of the American electorate who agree with Mr. Putin.
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#21125 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2023-September-19, 18:17

View Postgarfinkle, on 2023-September-19, 17:54, said:

If current polls are to be believed, there is a significant proportion of the American electorate who agree with Mr. Putin.


More than 90% of Americans (Pew research) don't.
Perhaps you're talking about some friends you met on a bridge in Florida?
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#21126 User is offline   garfinkle 

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Posted 2023-September-19, 19:08

View Postpilowsky, on 2023-September-19, 18:17, said:

More than 90% of Americans (Pew research) don't.
Perhaps you're talking about some friends you met on a bridge in Florida?

I'm just saying that Trump is considerably ahead of all GOP challengers. He's also ahead of Biden. I'm not really a Trump fan, but I find these bogus indictments total bullshit. I've heard all my life that politics is a dirty business and the Democrats in this country really know how to get down in the dirt.
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#21127 User is online   PassedOut 

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Posted 2023-September-19, 20:46

View Postgarfinkle, on 2023-September-19, 19:08, said:

I'm just saying that Trump is considerably ahead of all GOP challengers. He's also ahead of Biden. I'm not really a Trump fan, but I find these bogus indictments total bullshit. I've heard all my life that politics is a dirty business and the Democrats in this country really know how to get down in the dirt.

Are you saying that all of the indictments are bogus? Seems to me that he definitely took classified documents to Mar-a-Lago and refused to return them when asked politely.
The growth of wisdom may be gauged exactly by the diminution of ill temper. ó Friedrich Nietzsche
The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists ó that is why they invented hell. ó Bertrand Russell
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#21128 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-September-19, 21:44

View Postgarfinkle, on 2023-September-19, 19:08, said:

I'm just saying that Trump is considerably ahead of all GOP challengers. He's also ahead of Biden. I'm not really a Trump fan, but I find these bogus indictments total bullshit. I've heard all my life that politics is a dirty business and the Democrats in this country really know how to get down in the dirt.


I donít think you have a clue how narrow are the federal indictments and what crimes are alleged in the indictments and how much evidence of crimes is already known. It is also obvious that you have bought into the red herring about a politicized DOJ and Special Counsel that is being promoted by Trump and his cabal. That fish is spoiled and stinks.

Before you repeat that misinformation try reading the indictments. They can be found online.

Besides crimes, the damage done to national security by Trumpís thieving of classified documents is virtually unparalleled.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#21129 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2023-September-20, 15:39

View Postgarfinkle, on 2023-September-19, 17:54, said:

If current polls are to be believed, there is a significant proportion of the American electorate who agree with Mr. Putin.

That's only true in the extremist right fringe QOP echo chamber that has a decidedly unAmerican view of dictators and authoritarian governments. Most of the QOP love Putin because without his illegal foreign interference on behalf of Trump, Trump would probably have lost in 2016.
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#21130 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2023-September-20, 17:05

View Postpilowsky, on 2023-September-19, 18:17, said:

More than 90% of Americans (Pew research) don't.
Perhaps you're talking about some friends you met on a bridge in Florida?

I don't think they meant that these people agree with Putin in general. Just with his statement that the prosecution of Trump is politically-motivated. And it's not because Putin said it, they believe it because Trump said it -- Putin is just repeating it like all the Republican toadies.

#21131 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-September-20, 19:40

View Postbarmar, on 2023-September-20, 17:05, said:

I don't think they meant that these people agree with Putin in general. Just with his statement that the prosecution of Trump is politically-motivated. And it's not because Putin said it, they believe it because Trump said it -- Putin is just repeating it like all the Republican toadies.


Donít kid yourself. This is the party that had Orban as the CPAC speaker and who sent representatives to Russia. There is at least 30% of Republicans who are anti-democracy and therefore un-American
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#21132 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2023-September-21, 07:00

View Postgarfinkle, on 2023-September-19, 17:54, said:

If current polls are to be believed, there is a significant proportion of the American electorate who agree with Mr. Putin.


Oh look!

A brand new *****wit has joined the forums!

FWIW, when you go and create a sock puppet on a bridge forum, its good form to - I don't know - spend some time posting bridge related comment before jumping straight into trolling...
Alderaan delenda est
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#21133 User is offline   garfinkle 

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Posted 2023-September-21, 18:12

View Posthrothgar, on 2023-September-21, 07:00, said:

spend some time posting bridge related comment before jumping straight into trolling...

I'm truly sorry you feel that way. There was no intent to "troll" (whatever that means), just an attempt to state the obvious....that Trump leads in all the polls. I'm not convinced that's a good thing. But it's a long way to Tipperary.
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#21134 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2023-September-21, 20:44

A non-Trump post (whew!) with a Trump-reference in the lead up.

Following the Georgia RICO indictment against Trump, I wrote that it will cause Trump to be treated as a gang-leader & then all of his speech will be admissible. At the time, some commentators on Twitter were making a case that the RICO interpretation was also a creative "overreach of the law". To me, it sounded unconvincing.


I discovered yesterday that a battle (of sorts) is underway in Atlanta where a sizable proportion of Georgia residents are opposed to a training centre being set up (dubbed the "Cop City"). From what I gather, the powers (be it politicians, real estate folks, gun manufacturers & other suppliers of police forces) are all aligned and insisting that Cop City be built.

In opposition, there are numerous grassroot organisations working hard to convince the people to oppose it. The #StopCopCity movement managed to get hundreds of thousands of signatures, mobilised local protests, and built up an effective campaign.


So the DA charged various individuals from the movement using the same RICO statute. Isn't that great?! Label all protestors into gang-leaders & threaten them with litigation that will cost millions to defend. Atlanta Police FTW.
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#21135 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-September-21, 21:14

View Postshyams, on 2023-September-21, 20:44, said:

A non-Trump post (whew!) with a Trump-reference in the lead up.

Following the Georgia RICO indictment against Trump, I wrote that it will cause Trump to be treated as a gang-leader & then all of his speech will be admissible. At the time, some commentators on Twitter were making a case that the RICO interpretation was also a creative "overreach of the law". To me, it sounded unconvincing.


I discovered yesterday that a battle (of sorts) is underway in Atlanta where a sizable proportion of Georgia residents are opposed to a training centre being set up (dubbed the "Cop City"). From what I gather, the powers (be it politicians, real estate folks, gun manufacturers & other suppliers of police forces) are all aligned and insisting that Cop City be built.

In opposition, there are numerous grassroot organisations working hard to convince the people to oppose it. The #StopCopCity movement managed to get hundreds of thousands of signatures, mobilised local protests, and built up an effective campaign.


So the DA charged various individuals from the movement using the same RICO statute. Isn't that great?! Label all protestors into gang-leaders & threaten them with litigation that will cost millions to defend. Atlanta Police FTW.


The RICO statutes in Georgia are overly broad and may not withstand challenge on Constitutional grounds.

The big guns aimed at Donald Trump are Federal.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#21136 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2023-September-21, 22:12

I'm no expert but I think the one most likely to convict Trump *and* put him in jail for a long time is the Georgia RICO business. No Federal pardons possible for State felonies :)
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#21137 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2023-September-22, 01:11

View Postgarfinkle, on 2023-September-21, 18:12, said:

I'm truly sorry you feel that way. There was no intent to "troll" (whatever that means), just an attempt to state the obvious....that Trump leads in all the polls. I'm not convinced that's a good thing. But it's a long way to Tipperary.

When you use terms like "bogus indictments", you are doing the opposite of stating the obvious. The simple truth is that if Trump was not rich and white, he would have been indicted and convicted a long time ago given the level of evidence against him. So you are either trolling here or showing a quite disturbing level of cluelessness. I am quite happy to accept the latter explanation if you insist it is the correct one.
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#21138 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-September-22, 07:24

View Postshyams, on 2023-September-21, 22:12, said:

I'm no expert but I think the one most likely to convict Trump *and* put him in jail for a long time is the Georgia RICO business. No Federal pardons possible for State felonies :)


Although Georgia supremes found the law constitutional I believe a conviction would give standing to go the SCOTUS, this SCOTUS, the 6-3 one.
I doubt the Georgia RICO statute would survive that appeal. It is overly broad. But I am not a lawyer.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#21139 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2023-September-25, 14:24

View PostGilithin, on 2023-September-22, 01:11, said:

When you use terms like "bogus indictments", you are doing the opposite of stating the obvious. The simple truth is that if Trump was not rich and white, he would have been indicted and convicted a long time ago given the level of evidence against him.

Of course, if he weren't rich and white he never would have gotten into the position where he could have committed these offenses in the first place.

When Trump and his disciples rail against these indictments, they claim both "selective, politically-based prosecution" and "if they can come after me, they can come after you." Can it really be both?

#21140 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2023-September-25, 15:07

View Postbarmar, on 2023-September-25, 14:24, said:

Of course, if he weren't rich and white he never would have gotten into the position where he could have committed these offenses in the first place.

When Trump and his disciples rail against these indictments, they claim both "selective, politically-based prosecution" and "if they can come after me, they can come after you." Can it really be both?


Well, it SHOULD BE both. That is the rule of law.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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