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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#18621 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-04, 20:45

Jacobsen vs Massachusetts



Quote

The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine




"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#18622 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-August-04, 23:12

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-August-04, 20:45, said:

Jacobsen vs Massachusetts

Quote

The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine



The problem for red state politicians and their followers is that this doesn't apply to the Confederate States of America and that Yankee law is not their law.
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#18623 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-05, 07:41

View Postjohnu, on 2021-August-04, 23:12, said:

The problem for red state politicians and their followers is that this doesn't apply to the Confederate States of America and that Yankee law is not their law.


You also cannot find this quote in Leviticus. so it is not real law.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#18624 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2021-August-05, 09:18

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-August-05, 07:41, said:

You also cannot find this quote in Leviticus. so it is not real law.

Here is a real law from Leviticus though:

"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God." (Lev 19:33-34)
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#18625 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-August-05, 09:56

Matt Yglesias said:

I think the point is that Democrats *do* want Republicans’ input — they want to get them back on record as favoring cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid as their preferred approach to fiscal policy issues.

Jake Sherman said:

MCCONNELL: "Let me make something perfectly clear. if [Democrats] dont need or want our input they wont get our help … with the debt limit increase that these reckless plans will require."

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18626 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-August-05, 20:40

Matt Yglesias said:

I think the point is that Democrats *do* want Republicans’ input — they want to get them back on record as favoring cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid as their preferred approach to fiscal policy issues.


Every time a Repugnant rails against socialism and wants to avoid spending any money on anybody but themselves they are doing exactly that. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are the 3 largest socialist programs in America. Repugs want to cut and privatize Social Security, reduce Medicare, and eliminate Medicaid because they are "socialist" programs.
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#18627 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-August-05, 23:18

View Postjohnu, on 2021-August-05, 20:40, said:

Every time a Repugnant rails against socialism and wants to avoid spending any money on anybody but themselves they are doing exactly that. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are the 3 largest socialist programs in America. Repugs want to cut and privatize Social Security, reduce Medicare, and eliminate Medicaid because they are "socialist" programs.


Socialism - looking after other people.
No wonder they hate it.
Death, disease and disaster - all Gods will
If you don't survive you don't have the "Right Stuff".
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#18628 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-August-06, 00:02

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-August-05, 23:18, said:

Socialism - looking after other people.
No wonder they hate it.
Death, disease and disaster - all Gods will
If you don't survive you don't have the "Right Stuff".


Excuse me, you are wrong. If you don't survive, it's because you do have the "(Ultra) Right (fringe) Stuff"

Texas Lt. Governor Will Death Panel Your Nana To Save The Economy

Quote

Sorry to Granny and the other 28 million Americans age 65 and older, but if it’s you or the economy, lots of Republicans are going with the GDP. Last night, Texas’s Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick captured the gestalt, telling Fox’s Tucker Carlson that he’s “all in” only grandparents sacrificing themselves to preserve the American economy for the “grandchildren, that [] we all care about and [] we love more than anything.”


Dan Patrick thanks everybody Covid death in advance for preserving the American economy.
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#18629 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-August-06, 04:30

I like where you're coming from, but it's a reference to the Tom Wolfe book - "The Right Stuff" where the test pilots died, not because the plane was in any way inadequate, but because they just didn't have what it takes to survive at the "edge of the envelope".


This appears to reflect the attitude of many on the Stupid wing of both political parties.
"What about me?
It's not fair,
I've had enough
I want my share"


Could be the anthem for the loony fringe.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#18630 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2021-August-06, 07:12

I looked up the cited Dye article about the Texas Lt. Gov.. It gets weird.

Quote

“My message is that let’s get back to work. Let’s get back to living.” Patrick continued. “Let’s be smart about it. And those of us who are 70 plus, we’ll take care of ourselves, but don’t sacrifice the country. Don’t do that. Don’t ruin this great America.”

REALLY? Exactly how will “those of us who are 70 plus … take care of ourselves?” Because a fatality rate of 2 percent in the 330 million person population means 6.6 million American dead. And while we’re all bloody sick of being trapped in the house homeschooling our kids, the non-sociopathic portion of the country isn’t ready to watch our parents drown in their own lung secretions in exchange for getting back to “normal.”



The problem I have with this (and I am definitely 70 plus) is that it is way off the mark. When the vaccine first was being made available I thought parents with young children should have priority over me. at seemed right, I could stay isolated for a while longer while we vaccinated people who were really in a tough spot. When they prioritized by age then I got my shot. I went with the priorities that were chosen, but I could not have objected if they re-thought it and put someone else first. This was not because I put low value on my life, it was because I thought others had more immediate need and I could wait a bit in reasonable comfort.

But this jerk seems to be saying something very different. More like "Pandemic? Big deal. Ignore it. Live as usual." That's just stupid. Or effing crazy as Dye put it.

We don't ignore floods or fires, or at least we shouldn't. We don't ignore the bombing of Pearl Harbor or the Twin Towers. And we should not ignore the current crisis. I am not put out because he ignores old people, I just think his approach is nuts. And perhaps worst of all, this sort of craziness makes it harder to rationally discuss the plusses and minuses of various approaches. Exactly what we should do is not clear. I will soon go back to using a mask when shopping. I was shopping yesterday w/o one, and I was very happy when it seemed reasonable to do that, but things are changing again and I'll be masking again. I mean now. The virus is a serious problem, it did seem as if vaccinated people could shop w/o masks if the area was not too crowded, but now Delta has changed that again. Some might think I could wait a bit, others might wonder what took me so long, but someone who thinks we should just ignore the virus and go on as we always have, they are crazy. And they certainly are not saving the country.


Ken
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#18631 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-August-06, 07:44

Matt Yglesias said:

From Hungarian nationalism is not the answer

This overall sense of despair has an incredible odor of giving up after trying nothing.

Like, maybe conservative populism would have better prospects in the United States if its leader weren’t a louche, corrupt fraud who rambles nonsense all the time? I mean, we’re talking about a guy who got up on a podium and suggested we could cure Covid by shining ultraviolet light into people’s lungs.

I often hear progressives look at the Trump shitshow in total belief and despair as to how anyone could vote for that clown. I don’t find it puzzling at all; the basic ideas of “cops and troops are good, we should have less immigration and wave little flags a lot instead of obsessing over racism” just have a lot of appeal.

But the populist right looked at a sample of two, saw that Trump narrowly won in 2016 while Romney narrowly lost in 2012, and concluded that Trump was a political genius. The fact that Trump then lost in 2020 hasn’t caused them to revisit this at all. But recall that Romney wasn’t just running on the little flags; he also vowed to privatize Medicare. You could just drop that without also having a leader who can’t deliver a coherent answer to any policy question because he’s too busy spending weekends lining his own pockets with public funds.

Then when Trump was president, right in the middle of this supposedly apocalyptical cultural battle, what do Republicans do? They try to kick millions of people off their health insurance. Then they follow it up with a toxically unpopular tax cut for multinational corporations. Maybe before you decide that Portuguese fascism is the answer to conservatism’s problems, you should just try to do basic politics in a halfway competent way?

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#18632 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-August-06, 15:19

Trump lost in 2016 AND 2020: by a lot.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#18633 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-August-07, 08:16

Heather Cox Richardson's brief summary of the history of voting rights in the U.S.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18634 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-August-07, 08:49

Brian Beutler said:

Remember, this incontrovertible fact means Larry Hogan’s career in Republican politics has reached a dead end, whereas Ron DeSantis is the GOP’s favored non-Trump presidential candidate.

The Recount said:

Gov. Larry Hogan (R-MD) compares his state to Florida:

“Because we’re so vaccinated … they’ve got 10,000 people in the hospital, we have 300.”

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18635 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2021-August-07, 10:42

I voted for Larry Hogan. He seems sane. That might be a low bar, but not everyone can measure up to it these days.
Ken
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#18636 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2021-August-07, 10:56

View Postkenberg, on 2021-August-06, 07:12, said:

The problem I have with this (and I am definitely 70 plus) is that it is way off the mark. When the vaccine first was being made available I thought parents with young children should have priority over me. at seemed right, I could stay isolated for a while longer while we vaccinated people who were really in a tough spot. When they prioritized by age then I got my shot. I went with the priorities that were chosen, but I could not have objected if they re-thought it and put someone else first. This was not because I put low value on my life, it was because I thought others had more immediate need and I could wait a bit in reasonable comfort.

The reason people like you were prioritized is not that you needed to get out of lockdown sooner, but because the consequences of you catching COVID-19 would be more severe. Young people tended to have relatively mild symptoms and recover, old people ended up in the ICU and morgue. We needed to relieve this stress on hospitals.

So you didn't "deserve" it more. Protecting people like you was best for the whole system.

#18637 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-07, 11:51

This is getting amusing - oh, the irony!


Quote

A Florida radio host who railed against Dr. Fauci and vaccines has died from COVID-19



I read the news today, oh, boy,
about a man who'd really made the grade
and though the news was very sad
I just had to laugh,

when I read that paragraph


He blew his mind out sans a mask
and didn't know 'til he had breathed his last
that he didn't need to die
all he had to do was take a little poke
and stop his lies

I'm really glad he's gone.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#18638 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2021-August-07, 12:15

View Postbarmar, on 2021-August-07, 10:56, said:

The reason people like you were prioritized is not that you needed to get out of lockdown sooner, but because the consequences of you catching COVID-19 would be more severe. Young people tended to have relatively mild symptoms and recover, old people ended up in the ICU and morgue. We needed to relieve this stress on hospitals.

So you didn't "deserve" it more. Protecting people like you was best for the whole system.


Yes, I accepted that as the reason. It's a matter of large-scale statistics. Because of the careful way that Becky and I were doing things I think the chances of us getting covid were very low, making it unlikely we would be causing hospitals any problem. Of course I could be wrong, and not everyone of my age finds matters as easy. We were not in need of personal care in our lives, we were not needed to help with the grandchildren and so on. But case by case is not practical so it made sense to just put all of us that were over 75 in the same basket. And once the priorities were set, then that's what I went with. I wanted the vaccine, they said I was prioritized, so I got the vaccine. This did not stop me from thinking that a single parent, or for that matter married parents, were often in a tougher spot than I was.

But these are details. Exactly how to prioriize might or might not be clear. The problem cases are these nut jobs such as that Lt. Gov. in Texas

And we have a local nutjob. Apparently, there is to be a statewide gathering of county representatives soon. Several from each county are to go, and wearing masks at meetings is recommended. So one of the guys from our county has decided, because of the mask recommendation, not to go. I was thinking of writing to him with the following:

I see a physical therapy group for some problems with my knee. They require that I wear a mask. Now if I thought the PT was useless, I would not go whether a mask was required or not. I think the PT is useful, so I will go whether they require a mask or not. This statewide meeting might or might not be useful, I have no opinion about that, but deciding on attendance based on whether or not a mask is recommended is petulant and irresponsible.

This guy makes a misbehaving 8-year-old appear cooperative and mature by comparison. He is not from my voting district but good grief, people actually voted for him?

I really cannot understand what makes these people tick. The ones that think the vaccine will magnetize them are nuts. If a person is clearly nuts no further explanation is required. But there are others who, at first glance, seem sane. I don't get it.
Ken
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#18639 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-07, 12:32

View Postkenberg, on 2021-August-07, 12:15, said:

I really cannot understand what makes these people tick. The ones that think the vaccine will magnetize them are nuts. If a person is clearly nuts no further explanation is required. But there are others who, at first glance, seem sane. I don't get it.


I have narrowed it down to immaturity. Basically, spoiled brats.

I have a solution. For anyone who claims self-reliance and freedom as an absolute right, let's drop them off in the middle of the African Savanna - Naked and Afraid like the television show - and let them find out if they are indeed totally self-reliant and at the top of the food chain.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#18640 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-August-09, 02:35

Trump ‘Imagines’ How People Would Squawk Had COVID-19 ‘Attack’ Erupted On His Watch

Quote

“Could you imagine if I were president right now and we had this massive attack from the coronavirus?” he asked. “If that were me, they would say, ‘What a horrible thing, what a horrible job.’ And I don’t ever hear that.”


Well, you can't argue with that kind of logic :rolleyes:
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