BBO Discussion Forums: Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 855 Pages +
  • « First
  • 817
  • 818
  • 819
  • 820
  • 821
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#16361 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,106
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2020-October-01, 17:29

Jennifer Rubin:

Quote

“Trump is becoming more frantic and unhinged by the day,” Rubin argues. “He is staring not only at a possible landslide defeat, but potentially, also economic ruin and criminal prosecution. And his kids’ inheritance may be going down the drain as well. Certainly, Trump’s presidency has been a four-year nightmare for the country, but for Trump, it may turn out to be devastating and permanent.”


Karma's a bitch.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#16362 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,106
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2020-October-01, 20:08

Critical information from Senator Chris Murphy
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#16363 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,820
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2020-October-01, 23:32

Today, as the Coronavirus rips its way through the White House, my thoughts and prayers are with the virus.
Alderaan delenda est
2

#16364 User is offline   shyams 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,204
  • Joined: 2009-August-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2020-October-02, 01:45

View PostWinstonm, on 2020-October-01, 20:08, said:

Critical information from Senator Chris Murphy


This is tragic. It shouldn't happen in a robust democracy.

I don't care how petty and venal the politicians become during election season; it simply should not spill into the apolitical institutions. These "short-term gains" (if any) come with a very profound long-term cost.
0

#16365 User is offline   johnu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,852
  • Joined: 2008-September-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2020-October-02, 02:42

View Postshyams, on 2020-October-02, 01:45, said:

This is tragic. It shouldn't happen in a robust democracy.

I don't care how petty and venal the politicians become during election season; it simply should not spill into the apolitical institutions. These "short-term gains" (if any) come with a very profound long-term cost.

This sort of thing has been going on for almost 4 years.
0

#16366 User is offline   johnu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,852
  • Joined: 2008-September-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2020-October-02, 02:44

Nobody knows if Hope Hicks was the source of the Grifter in Chief's positive COVID-19 test, but if she was, is she eligible for the von Stauffenberg award?
0

#16367 User is offline   shyams 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,204
  • Joined: 2009-August-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2020-October-02, 03:47

I have a theory that says that the Covid infection has improved Trump's chances of being reelected. Here is my tenuous rationale:

1. Americans love to rally for their President in times of stress.
... A. This infection having spread right to the highest seat of power might make Americans stressed and could create a larger support for Trump.
... B. A few days before the 2004 election, there was a tape of OBL released by Al Jazeera. Although the tape itself was highly critical of Bush, its viewing increased Bush's lead in the Presidential election. Perhaps the viral infection is an equivalence and will invoke a "defiant" response.

2. What actually happens to Trump from the infection will play to his benefit too:
... A. If Trump comes out of this unscathed (the most likely outcome), he will use his own example to discredit all scientists and weaken the fear of Covid. His demands to reopen the economy will get more shrill and he will use this call to bludgeon Biden and paint Biden's positioning as weak/defeatist.
... B. If he falls more ill before recovering (e.g. like BoJo did), he will garner a much bigger sympathy vote.

3. Finally, it is now almost certain that at least one Presidential debate (if not all debates) will be cancelled. Again something which Trump's side won't mind.
0

#16368 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,054
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2020-October-02, 06:57

It's quite the news to wake up to.

I don't wish covid on anyone, I'll leave it at that as far as health wishes go.

There are practical issues and I hope that's where the focus goes.

I recommend to JB that he wish the Trumps well, and that hi wish everyone well in dealing with the virus. But then the world continues to turn and the election is coming, Biden will continue to make his case. It is probably pre-mature to talk of the next debate, although I think a person with covid should cut back on activity. But then I thnk people should wear masks and keep a good distance, and, s far as Trump is concerned, this advice fell on deaf ears.

Shyams could be right about a sympathy vote but I don't really think so. Voteers can send him a get well card if they want to, there is no reason to give him a vote to cheer him up.

It has really been quite a year. And it's not over yet.
Ken
0

#16369 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,054
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2020-October-02, 07:32

A bit of morbid humor struck me while drinking my coffee. Recently DT was speaking favorably about masks and mentioned he had one right in his pocket. .It reminded me of a tv show where a woman was saying the she had joined a gym and it hadn't done a bit of good. "Apparently you also have to go".
Ken
0

#16370 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,452
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2020-October-02, 07:40

View Postkenberg, on 2020-October-02, 06:57, said:

I recommend to JB that he wish the Trumps well,

In case you have missed it, JB has already done this. Regarding JB there is perhaps a more immediate issue though. From my understanding, Hope Hicks was already symptomatic on Wednesday, which would mean that she was almost certainly infected (and highly infectious) at the time of the debate on Tuesday. That might mean that JB and his campaign also need to self-isolate. There is much yet to run in this story. From the Republican perspective, at least the news cycle has changed away from the POTUS's support of neo-fascism. Watching CNN and BBC News today, I have not heard that mentioned even once.
(-: Zel :-)

half-wit -- Chas_P the racist
0

#16371 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,054
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2020-October-02, 08:18

View PostZelandakh, on 2020-October-02, 07:40, said:

In case you have missed it, JB has already done this. Regarding JB there is perhaps a more immediate issue though. From my understanding, Hope Hicks was already symptomatic on Wednesday, which would mean that she was almost certainly infected (and highly infectious) at the time of the debate on Tuesday. That might mean that JB and his campaign also need to self-isolate. There is much yet to run in this story. From the Republican perspective, at least the news cycle has changed away from the POTUS's support of neo-fascism. Watching CNN and BBC News today, I have not heard that mentioned even once.


I had missed that part. I trust he, and others, will be tested.

Comparing their issues with mine os ot super-valid but a couple of examples come to mind. I was in a doctor's office and later got an email that one of the staff had tested positive. So I got tested. It was negative.
A grandson, living in LA, was going to come east for a while. He tested positive. He cancelled the plans to come out, both as social responsibility and as caution for himself. Sure, presidential candidates lead hectic lives, not at all like mine or even like my grandson's. Still, covid is a serious business so a mixture of caution and social responsibility is called for.

One can easily imagine some serious legal and political complications going forward. I'll lay off speculating, I don't know enough. But this is a serious mess. The best result for the country really is that Trump males a full recovery and does so quickly. That doesn't mean I want him re-elected, of course not. But I do want him sent from the office in the usual way.

This will require some good common sense from us all.
Ken
0

#16372 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,106
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2020-October-02, 08:22

View Posthrothgar, on 2020-October-01, 23:32, said:

Today, as the Coronavirus rips its way through the White House, my thoughts and prayers are with the virus.


I tried to send the Trumps my thoughts and prayers but they were deflected by my mask.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#16373 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,106
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2020-October-02, 08:26

View Postshyams, on 2020-October-02, 03:47, said:

I have a theory that says that the Covid infection has improved Trump's chances of being reelected. Here is my tenuous rationale:

1. Americans love to rally for their President in times of stress.
... A. This infection having spread right to the highest seat of power might make Americans stressed and could create a larger support for Trump.
... B. A few days before the 2004 election, there was a tape of OBL released by Al Jazeera. Although the tape itself was highly critical of Bush, its viewing increased Bush's lead in the Presidential election. Perhaps the viral infection is an equivalence and will invoke a "defiant" response.

2. What actually happens to Trump from the infection will play to his benefit too:
... A. If Trump comes out of this unscathed (the most likely outcome), he will use his own example to discredit all scientists and weaken the fear of Covid. His demands to reopen the economy will get more shrill and he will use this call to bludgeon Biden and paint Biden's positioning as weak/defeatist.
... B. If he falls more ill before recovering (e.g. like BoJo did), he will garner a much bigger sympathy vote.

3. Finally, it is now almost certain that at least one Presidential debate (if not all debates) will be cancelled. Again something which Trump's side won't mind.


It struck me this morning that this whole episode could be an orchestrated ruse to change the news cycle and make Trump look like a superhero when he emerges in 2 weeks having conquered the virus. The fact that this is not an unrealistic thought shows how far down the rabbit hole we have gone.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#16374 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,054
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2020-October-02, 08:44

View PostWinstonm, on 2020-October-02, 08:26, said:

It struck me this morning that this whole episode could be an orchestrated ruse to change the news cycle and make Trump look like a superhero when he emerges in 2 weeks having conquered the virus. The fact that this is not an unrealistic thought shows how far down the rabbit hole we have gone.


I have to be honest, that thought occurred to me also. I don't believe it is so, but it occurred to me. We have not yet hit the bottom of our collapse, it seems there is no bottom.

But recovery for Trump, victory for Biden, and then we move on. That's my hope, I recommend it to all.



Ken
1

#16375 User is offline   sharon j 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 68
  • Joined: 2005-December-27
  • Location:San Tan Valley Arizona
  • Interests:golf, boating, camping

Posted 2020-October-02, 08:50

My reaction was much like Winston's. I'm suspicious of anything Trump says.
0

#16376 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,368
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2020-October-02, 12:31

View Postkenberg, on 2020-October-02, 08:44, said:

... recovery for Trump, victory for Biden, and then we move on. That's my hope, I recommend it to all.

I feel similarly but not more than for the recovery of the 4.2 million other Americans with confirmed active cases that the Trump administration has been so ineffective at preventing and whose access to health care Trump is seeking to abolish.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#16377 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,054
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2020-October-02, 13:05

View Posty66, on 2020-October-02, 12:31, said:

I feel similarly but not more than for the recovery of the 4.2 million other Americans with confirmed active cases that the Trump administration has been so ineffective at preventing and whose access to health care Trump is seeking to abolish.


The reasons for getting rid of this guy abound.
Ken
0

#16378 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,106
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2020-October-02, 13:07

From an Atlantic article posted on the Coronavirus thread: https://www.theatlan...Jz1wTM3ypFTlYCs

Quote

In study after study, we see that super-spreading clusters of COVID-19 almost overwhelmingly occur in poorly ventilated, indoor environments where many people congregate over time—weddings, churches, choirs, gyms, funerals, restaurants, and such—especially when there is loud talking or singing without masks


This sounds to me like the Oval Office.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#16379 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,368
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2020-October-02, 14:56

The NYT Editorial Board said:

May President Trump and the first lady recover swiftly after testing positive for the coronavirus. For their sake — and for the sake of the nation.

The president’s health is a matter of national security. That’s one reason it’s been so frustrating to watch as Mr. Trump has flouted basic public health guidelines and the advice of his own government’s experts. Every time he refused to wear a mask or observe social distancing guidelines, he put not only himself but also all of America at risk.

Mr. Trump’s illness will throw the highest levels of government into disarray. Even if he does not become seriously ill, the president will be unable to perform many of his duties until the threat of contagion has passed. Following his diagnosis, his public schedule was cleared on Friday except for a phone call “on Covid-19 support to vulnerable seniors” — which Vice President Mike Pence ended up handling.

With more than 207,000 American lives already lost to this pandemic, the potential for a worst-case scenario is all too clear.

A serious presidential illness is an issue of national importance under ordinary circumstances. Coming just a month out from Election Day, the potential for chaos is exponential. Mr. Trump will need to leave the campaign trail for an indeterminate amount of time, canceling rallies and fund-raisers and throwing the future debates into limbo. Voters were already anxious about the nation’s ability to hold a free and fair election — anxiety fueled by Mr. Trump, whose core campaign strategy has been to claim that Democrats and the “deep state” are working to rig the race. Speculation about his health will only fray nerves and further destabilize the situation. The conspiracy theorists and disinformation trolls will do their best to maximize the turmoil.

To minimize the chaos, the American public needs to be kept closely apprised of Mr. Trump’s condition and of how the situation — read: the nation’s leadership — is being managed. The first lady has tweeted that the couple is “feeling good,” and Mr. Trump’s physician has expressed confidence that the president will be able to continue his duties “without disruption” from his residence. At a Friday media briefing, the White House chief of staff confirmed that the president was experiencing “mild symptoms” — after The Times had reported as much. The White House did not reveal the illness of Hope Hicks, the presidential aide who was exhibiting symptoms on Wednesday and received a positive diagnosis on Thursday, until after it was reported in the media.

None of this is reassuring. In times of crisis, the public looks to the president for reassurance and guidance. What happens when he is at the heart of that crisis? Public confidence plummets, and tensions rise. Global markets are shaken. Foreign adversaries search for ways to exploit the uncertainty. In a misguided attempt to convey strength, Mr. Trump has made America weaker and more vulnerable.

The president’s illness is like a stone thrown into a pond, where the ripples quickly spread. Top-level aides and advisers will have to quarantine themselves. Already, a list of people who have been in recent close contact with Ms. Hicks is making its way around social media. In coming days, we will learn whether those who have been in proximity to Mr. Trump this week are also sick. Already, Senator Mike Lee, a Utah Republican and member of the Judiciary Committee, has announced that he has tested positive.

Now is not a time for political games. The president’s health is not a private matter. Americans need to have confidence that Mr. Trump is in a position to handle the nation’s business — and, if not, that he will hand over the reins to the vice president until his condition improves. For too long he has failed to take this virus, or his own safety, seriously.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
2

#16380 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,452
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2020-October-02, 15:45

View Postkenberg, on 2020-October-02, 08:18, said:

I had missed that part. I trust he, and others, will be tested.

He and his wife were indeed tested. it came back negative but the process severely delayed their campaigning schedule. I think it was a good look for them that they waited for the test. Whether they should also cut back generally I am not sure. I daresay that they will be guided by medical professionals in this.

The POTUS is apparently being hospitalised, which classes his as a serious case no matter how much his team try to downplay it in the coming hours and days. Like you, I would hope that he recovers and that the episode does not cause the USA any issues. In the best case, it might lead to the WH taking the virus more seriously and saving a few lives in the coming months.
(-: Zel :-)

half-wit -- Chas_P the racist
0

Share this topic:


  • 855 Pages +
  • « First
  • 817
  • 818
  • 819
  • 820
  • 821
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

35 User(s) are reading this topic
1 members, 34 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. Google,
  2. Trinidad