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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#14321 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-November-24, 09:05

View Postbarmar, on 2019-November-23, 21:24, said:

I just had a horrible thought. Could the GOP argue that advancing Trump's political interests is promoting the interests of the country? If they beiieve that the country is best served by Trump winning in 2020, anything that furthers that goal meets their oath to "protect and defend the United States".

It would be different if Trump were just lining his pockets rather than trying to help his Presidential campaign.


It seems to work for North Korea.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#14322 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-November-24, 13:35

Here is part of the reason the Trump strongman myth gets promulgated: Note the two headlines from days apart.

Quote

Trump intervenes against US Navy leadership (again) | MSNBC


Quote

White House won't intervene in SEAL's disciplinary hearing ...


Acting (supposedly) brash and daring ... Trump did it.
Backing down like a cur from a rock barrage... White House won't.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#14323 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2019-November-24, 20:44

Hi guys. Just passing through to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving. May you all enjoy pleasant times spent with family and friends and the blessings of liberty while living in the greatest country on Earth.

#14324 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2019-November-24, 21:52

View PostChas_P, on 2019-November-24, 20:44, said:

Hi guys. Just passing through to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving. May you all enjoy pleasant times spent with family and friends and the blessings of liberty while living in the greatest country on Earth.

Thanks :)

I am afraid New Zealand isn't the greatest country on Earth, though, it is only 268.000 sqm.
As much as I like you guys, you really need to know that this is all complete nonsense --- Pilowsky
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#14325 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 02:01

The US Congressman from Moscow, Devon Nunes refused to answer questions about his meetings in Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden.

Devin Nunes Dodges Questions About Whether He Met With Ukrainians For Dirt On Biden

Quote

Appearing on “Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Bartiromo,” Nunes was asked simply whether he had been in Vienna, Austria, with Shokin.

“Look, Maria, I really want to answer all of these questions,” Nunes told Fox’s Maria Bartiromo. “And I absolutely will come back on this show and answer these questions,” he said, before saying he couldn’t speak on the matter because it involved law enforcement. But as he continued, Nunes implied that unfavorable coverage, rather than procedural carefulness, might explain why he would not say whether he’d met with Ukrainian officials for dirt on a U.S. presidential candidate.


Another typical move by one of Trump's (and by proxy Putin) puppets who had threatened to sue the media about these news reports.

Nunes threatens to take CNN, Daily Beast to court over story about meeting with Ukrainian prosecutor

Apparently it was too difficult to just categorically deny any involvement for a man who lacks the intellect and creativity of the Criminal in Chief.
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#14326 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 02:09

View PostChas_NoIntegrity_NoDignity_NoHonor, on 2019-November-24, 20:44, said:



It is November 2020 already? So much for yet another empty and dishonest promise to stop posting in this thread.
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#14327 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 06:39

In From Here to Home, Viet Than Nguyen reviews five short documentaries about the immigrant experience in America that "testify to both the depth of our shared humanity and the height of the walls separating us".

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To love, to laugh, to live, to work, to fail, to despair, to parent, to cry, to die, to mourn, to hope: These attributes exist whether we are Vietnamese or Mexican or American or any other form of classification. We share much more in common with one another than we have in difference. And yet these differences — of color, religion, language, origin and so on — matter because we make them matter, or because others persuade or coerce us into believing in they matter.

...

Our national midlife crisis, our sense of our slipping global power, can drive us to act out or to examine ourselves. We act out by longing for enemies to conquer in the vain hope that this will restore our greatness, and we mistake immigrants and refugees for those enemies. But if we are mature enough to examine ourselves, we can both celebrate the accomplishments of American culture and also acknowledge — and maybe even atone for — its terrible deeds.

We can help to make up for these tragedies by doing two things that foes of immigration argue are incompatible: renewing our commitment to the most marginalized Americans who are already here, and welcoming the immigrants and refugees who regenerate us. But we don’t have a lot of time.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#14328 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 07:37

From Don’t Buy the Conventional Wisdom on Impeachment by Jonathan Bernstein at Bloomberg:

Quote

The conventional wisdom is getting a bit ahead of itself on impeachment.

I’m not predicting that President Donald Trump will be removed from office; that’s probably not going to happen. But there’s a big difference between probably and certainly. And after two weeks of public impeachment hearings, it seems to me that a certainty has set in: that there’s simply no way that Republicans will ever turn on Trump.

Perhaps! It’s true that congressional Republicans seem to be more solidly behind Trump than ever. In particular, Representative Will Hurd, who might’ve been the most likely member of the party to vote for impeachment and take a few others with him, seems to have decided against it. The most likely outcome may still be a close-to-party-line impeachment in the House and acquittal in the Senate.

But remember that conservative Republicans stuck with President Richard Nixon in 1974 … right up until they didn’t. Trump’s seemingly unanimous support right now is similar to the backing that Nixon had even as his original cover-up collapsed in early 1973; as the Senate Watergate committee hearings dominated that summer; as the Saturday Night Massacre unfolded in October; and as the House judiciary committee debated and voted on specific articles of impeachment in 1974. And then: The smoking gun tape came out and it all collapsed immediately. Even Nixon’s strongest supporter on the judiciary committee, the Jim Jordan of the day, who had just vigorously defended the president during televised deliberations, flipped and said he’d vote to impeach on the House floor.

That suggests Nixon’s support was never as solid as it seemed. Which in turn suggests we just can’t know how firm Trump’s support is among congressional Republicans this time. Perhaps they’re prepared for the worst and determined to stick with the president no matter what. But history tells me that we don’t know for sure — and that it’s quite possible that they don’t know for sure what they’ll ultimately do.

Again: I’m not predicting anything. But just since the last hearing, new evidence has emerged showing how the White House tried to

  • justify a delay in delivering military aid to Ukraine;
  • Rudy Giuliani’s indicted associate Lev Parnas has turned over recordings and other material to the House intelligence committee;
  • one of Trump’s conspiracy theories about the FBI’s investigation into his 2016 campaign has apparently collapsed;
  • and Democrats have started probing the possibility that Trump lied to former special counsel Robert Mueller.

Moreover, the chaotic ouster of Navy Secretary Richard Spencer on Sunday shows that Trump remains quite capable of doing damage to himself, and gives another reason for Republicans who care about the traditional values of the U.S. military to think twice about backing him.

It all adds up to a lot more uncertainty than many people seem to appreciate.

Some of the early posts on this thread suggest Bernstein is not alone in his openness to seemingly unimaginable outcomes. I admire the openness but it is a quality of enlightened thinking that continues to elude me.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#14329 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 08:25

From Lee Drutman, author of the forthcoming “Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop: The Case for Multiparty Democracy in America”:

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As impeachment mania grips Washington, it is easy to descend into an ever-deepening political pessimism. But as odd as it may seem, for the first time in years, I’m optimistic about the future of American democracy. It might be because I’ve been reading more history and less news. And from the long arc of American political history, I see the bright flashing arrows of a new age of reform and renewal ahead.

Eras of reform follow a general pattern. First, a mood of impending crisis prevails. Unfairness and inequality feel overwhelming, and national politics feels stuck and unresponsive to growing demands. But beneath the shattered yet still stubborn national stasis, new social movements organize. Politics becomes exciting and full of moral energy. New writers, empowered by new forms of media, invent new narratives. And future-oriented politicians emerge to channel that energy and challenge the old establishment.

America has gone through periodic eras of political reform, every 60 years or so. The Revolutionary War; the Age of Jackson; the Progressive Era; the civil rights movement. In each era, the old rules of politics changed, the old centers of politics collapsed, and American democracy became a little more participatory and inclusive.

Of the reform periods, the Progressive Era holds the clearest parallels to ours. In the 1890s, inequality, partisanship and discontent were all sky-high. The depression of 1893-97 shattered faith that a growing industrial economy would lift all boats. New leviathan railroad and public-utility corporations seemed imposingly powerful, and partisan politics seemed thoroughly corrupted by them. Mass immigration was changing the face of the nation.

As public dissatisfaction built, and pressure grew from multiple directions, the political system eventually responded, led by a new generation of reform-oriented activists and politicians. New forms of participatory democracy — the primary, direct elections for the Senate, the initiative and the referendum — reshaped a political system that seemed to privilege the few over the many.

Women achieved the right to vote, first in cities and states, then finally nationwide in 1920. New regulatory agencies wrestled with the size and scope of giant corporate enterprises, cutting some down to size, putting stricter boundaries on others. But even as late as 1902, it was far from obvious that the years ahead would bring so much change.

A crucial Progressive Era lesson for today is that reform had no obvious order, and there was no one unified progressive movement — only a long list of social movements that sometimes made common causes and sometimes bitterly disagreed and often worked separately. Populist farmers caught in debt mobilized against the railroads. Liberal professional-class cosmopolitans grew disgusted with urban graft and devoted themselves to good-government municipal reforms. Many efforts suffered repeated setbacks before making progress. For example, women’s suffrage faced many battles before it eventually passed. In short: don’t plan too much, build coalitions opportunistically, and don’t give up.

Nor was there one leader, or even one political party, that drove change. A menagerie of ambitious politicians fused together different platforms and programs, and fought over fundamental issues: How much should rest on direct as opposed to representative democracy? Was it better to break up big companies, or just strengthen the ability of government to regulate them? Theodore Roosevelt, Robert La Follette, Woodrow Wilson and the coalitions backing them all had different ideas. Reform was incoherent and chaotic. It is inherently experimental — new problems demand new solutions. In short: Don’t expect one politician or one reform to hold all the answers.

The Progressive Era left a mixed record, largely because progressives were too hostile to political parties as crucial engines of political engagement and overly optimistic about the power of independent, rational judgment. But the era’s reforms solved a particular problem of corrupt, top-down power at a particular moment. Each reformist movement can be expected only to resolve its most pressing problems in a way that keeps democracy going for a future era of reform

When future historians look back on the 2010s, they will observe three larger trends that paved the way for a new era of reform by clearing away the old consensus: a loss of faith in “neoliberal” economics, the breakdown of white male-dominated social and cultural hierarchies, and the collapse of the “normal” political process.

The financial crisis of 2008-09 and the decades-long stagnation of middle-class wages shattered the neoliberal faith that loosely regulated markets naturally bring widespread prosperity. In the last decade, leaders in both parties have turned (rhetorically, at least) against the global trade and financial system, mouthing the frustrations of voters.

The new tech giants now wield a kind of power as the central nodes of commerce and information that we haven’t seen since the railroads of the Gilded Age. For most Americans, the economy feels unfair. Capitalism has lost its luster, particularly for younger Americans. As in the Progressive Era, corporate domination and corruption are widely agreed to be a problem.

On the changing social and cultural order, both Me Too and Black Lives Matter represent profound and emblematic new social movements not just because they spotlighted and remedied longstanding injustices. They are also profound because they show how new technology and new forms of media have upended traditional power relationships by amplifying previously marginalized stories. For instance, the number of women, and particularly women of color, running for (and winning) public office has increased significantly over the last few years.

These cultural changes have provoked a backlash that contributed to Donald Trump’s rise and the associated growth of alt-right movements. Fights over identity now define national partisan competition because they echo and reinforce fundamental divides in the ethnic and geographical coalitions of the two major parties and amplify the zero-sum stakes of two-party electoral conflict. The unceasing culture war is a battle over two very different and diverging visions.

On the political system itself: The conflicts over economics and culture are intimately tied to declining faith in politics as usual and the growing distrust of government. But in a politics oriented around zero-sum questions of national identity, and with razor’s edge control of Congress constantly at stake, compromise equates to surrender.

Close two-party politics is a recipe for nasty two-party politics. Our government is not working under this strain because it was designed to prevent narrow majoritarian politics and instead demand broad compromise. But the good news is that dysfunction is the precursor to reform. The breakdown of norms has an upside — it’s possible to put new, fairer norms in place of old, broken ones. Presidential candidates now talk about structural reform, like the abolishing the Electoral College and adding judges to the Supreme Court and even adding states to change the balance of power in the Senate.

In short, in each area — economic, cultural, political — whatever once passed for an old consensus is gone. The range of the possible has expanded greatly in the past decade, and in many directions.

The history of American democratic reform has been on balance progressive. In each era, reformers achieved at least some of their goals, and new political and economic rules tamed the most striking injustices, at least for a while.

But history never repeats itself perfectly. And we’ve never quite had a president as defiant and hostile as Donald Trump before. The hyperpolarization that powered and sustains Mr. Trump is the first and essential challenge a coming era of reform must solve. Left to escalate further, the current partisan ratchet of constitutional hardball will break our democracy.

But here’s why I’m ultimately optimistic: I see how much the election of Mr. Trump acted as an impetus for people who care about democracy to get involved. The 2018 election registered the highest turnout midterm election in 104 years, and the smart money is on a similarly high turnout election in 2020. It may sound strange to say, but Mr. Trump’s election may yet turn out to be the shock and near-death experience that American political system needed to right itself.

I’m also optimistic because the one reform with the most potential to break our zero-sum partisanship, ranked-choice voting, is gaining tremendous momentum at the state and local level. In 2018, Maine became the first state to use ranked-choice voting for federal elections (after Mainers approved it in two statewide referendums). This month, New York City voters adopted it. Also in 2020, expect voters in Alaska and Massachusetts to decide whether they want in on ranked-choice voting.

By removing the spoiler effect of third parties, ranked-choice voting can break the us-versus-them force driving our partisan warfare, and create space for a political realignment that creates new coalitions to shape economic reforms and negotiate social change.

When political conditions become intolerable, people eventually stop tolerating them. And when old rules and power structures crumble, new ones emerge. Now is the time to participate. Get involved in a cause you believe in, and join a campaign to enact reform in your city or your state (national reform always starts at the state and local level).

As with each era of reform, we’ll get some things right and some things wrong. We’ll overcorrect for some past mistakes, and make some new ones. But democracy isn’t something to perfect or solve. It’s a continuing, improbable experiment in self-governance, of devilish scale and complexity. We’re still learning.

Dysfunction is the precursor of reform? I admit I've never thought of it that way.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#14330 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 14:31

Lawrence Hurley, Supreme Court reporter for Reuters, @lawrencehurley said:

Justice Ginsburg is at the Supreme Court today and will be attending musical event this afternoon

https://www.reuters....y-idUSKBN1XZ2C6

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#14331 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 15:43

Rick Perry Calls Donald Trump The Chosen One Sent By God To Rule Over Us

Quote

In an interview clip shown on Fox News’ “Fox & Friends,” Perry told Ed Henry that the president was “the chosen one” sent by God to rule over America. The former Texas governor and Republican presidential rival of Trump used Old Testament kings to make his point.

“God’s used imperfect people all through history,” Perry said. “King David wasn’t perfect, Saul wasn’t perfect, Solomon wasn’t perfect.”

Perry said he shared his thoughts with Trump on paper recently. “I said, Mr. President, I know there are people that say you said you were the chosen one and I said, ‘You were.’ I said, ‘If you’re a believing Christian, you understand God’s plan for the people who rule and judge over us on this planet and our government.’ ”

Henry noted that Perry said he believed that former President Barack Obama was also sent by God. {OMG}

Heathens who are criticizing the Criminal in Chief will probably go to hell for questioning God's plan. B-) :rolleyes:
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#14332 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 17:07

Lawrence Hurley, Supreme Court reporter for Reuters, @lawrencehurley said:

This could end up at the Supreme Court very quickly

Jan Wolfe @JanNWolfe at Reuters said:

RTRS: U.S. JUDGE RULES TRUMP'S FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL MCGAHN MUST COMPLY WITH CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE'S SUBPOENA FOR TESTIMONY

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#14333 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 17:19

View Postjohnu, on 2019-November-25, 15:43, said:

Rick Perry Calls Donald Trump The Chosen One Sent By God To Rule Over Us


Heathens who are criticizing the Criminal in Chief will probably go to hell for questioning God's plan. B-) :rolleyes:


The Big Plan is to establish a Christian theocratic oligarchy in the United States. And that makes them hard to defeat as reason has no appeal to zealots. 20% are in for the dough and the rest are in by faith alone. And there is no argument that will persuade faith.

As that famed Christian debater William Lane Craig once argued: when reason and science conflict with scripture, believe scripture.
Good argument. Hard to reason against. :o

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#14334 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 18:12

View PostChas_P, on 2019-November-24, 20:44, said:

Hi guys. Just passing through to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving. May you all enjoy pleasant times spent with family and friends and the blessings of liberty while living in the greatest country on Earth.


So, who had two weeks in the pool?
Alderaan delenda est
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#14335 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 18:59

View Postjohnu, on 2019-November-25, 02:09, said:

It is November 2020 already? So much for yet another empty and dishonest promise to stop posting in this thread.


I apologize meathead. I really didn't consider a Happy Thanksgiving wish to be a political statement. It was sincere and intended for everyone on the board....even you. So once again, Happy Thanksgiving. I also apologize to helene_t. I didn't take into account that they don't celebrate Thanksgiving on New Zealand. So to Helene...my best wishes to you for a joyous 4th Thursday in November on New Zealand.

#14336 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-November-25, 20:08

View Posthelene_t, on 2019-November-24, 21:52, said:

I am afraid New Zealand isn't the greatest country on Earth, though, it is only 268.000 sqm.

You have the whole of Middle Earth there - seems pretty darned good to me! B-)
(-: Zel :-)

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#14337 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-November-26, 09:21

I wonder what the racist-in-chief thinks about this:

Quote

Chestnut and co-defendants Ransom Watkins and Andrew Stewart were formally exonerated Monday for the notorious 1983 murder of a junior high school student over a Georgetown basketball jacket. Police and prosecutors had claimed the Georgetown jacket found in Chestnut’s closet belonged to the victim. Now, they acknowledge the jacket had, in fact, come from his mother

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#14338 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-November-26, 09:40

The reason why the Republican party of corruption won't dump Trump.

Quote

Put it this way: By using his political power to punish businesses that don’t support him while rewarding those that do, Trump is taking us along the same path already followed by countries like Hungary, which remains a democracy on paper but has become a one-party authoritarian state in practice. And we’re already much further down that road than many people realize.


These people don't care about America. They don't care about democracy. They only care about staying in power. If that means creating an American theocratic oligarchy, so be it. After all, religion is the opium of the people.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#14339 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2019-November-26, 12:57

View PostChas_NoHonor_NoDignity_NoIntegrity, on 2019-November-25, 18:59, said:


Continues to show that his words have as much meaning as the Criminal in Chief by continuing to post here.
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#14340 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-November-26, 13:43

View Postjohnu, on 2019-November-26, 12:57, said:

Continues to show that his words have as much meaning as the Criminal in Chief by continuing to post here.


What I find remarkable is that BBO lets him act as a Yellow
Alderaan delenda est
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