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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#22041 User is offline   PassedOut 

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Posted 2024-October-31, 09:13

We voted already, but I was pleased to see how organized the Democrats are in pushing the turnout. I got emails encouraging me to get my ballot early and then emails after I got my ballot reminding me to return it right away. (I expect that the emails asking for more money will soon stop coming.)
The growth of wisdom may be gauged exactly by the diminution of ill temper. — Friedrich Nietzsche
The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists — that is why they invented hell. — Bertrand Russell
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#22042 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2024-October-31, 09:48

View Postkenberg, on 2024-October-30, 08:52, said:

It is hardly news to say that this is a very unusual election but still I will comment.

It appears that a fair sized proportion of the folks who plan to vote for Trump agree that he is an awful person, they just feel that he will have good policies. "Yes, he is a rat but he is my rat". Usually, voters claim that the person they support is not a rat. It took a while, but eventually after the Watergate hearings Nixon supporters actually stopped supporting him.

It is a bad idea to elect a rat to be our president. Rats are rats, and they do not help anyone. Al Capone did more harm than good, even if he did provide whiskey to his supporters. In the long run, a rat hurts just about everyone.

I am hoping that enough people rethink rat support before they cast their ballot. We shall see.


I had an enlightening email discussion with my cousin in Arkansas the other day. She said that although she didn't support Trump her views were consistent with the Republican ideas and so she should vote the party line.

This, then, IS the problem, that Republicans think that their party is still the party of Reagan and Bush. They don't realize that the Republican party did not produce a platform at their convention, that their only platform is retribution and power seeking. I don't know how to overcome this ignorance (note, I said ignorance, not stupidity. ignornoace is a lack of knowing, not a criticism of intelligence.)

PS: I voted early today for what that's worth here in ruby red Oklahoma. Still, it felt good to see Harris-Walz on the ballot.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#22043 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2024-October-31, 15:24

What Trump says on Thursday has little if anything to do with what he will say on Friday, and neither has anything at all to do with what actions he will take if elected. Yes, some of that is true of all politicinans, perhaps of all people, but Trump is a truly extreme case. I am not one who asks for miracles, but we are in serious need of one.
Ken
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#22044 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted Yesterday, 10:23

View PostWinstonm, on 2024-October-31, 09:48, said:

This, then, IS the problem, that Republicans think that their party is still the party of Reagan and Bush. They don't realize that the Republican party did not produce a platform at their convention, that their only platform is retribution and power seeking. I don't know how to overcome this ignorance (note, I said ignorance, not stupidity. ignornoace is a lack of knowing, not a criticism of intelligence.)

Is it ignorance, or just wishful thinking?

#22045 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Yesterday, 10:25

Ok, the campaign is still in progress. WaPo cites the latest remarks from DT.

Quote

"His daughter is a very dumb individual, very dumb," Trump said. "She's a radical war hawk. Let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, okay? Let's see how she feels about it. You know, when the guns are trained on her face."


I suppose he said it. With anyone else , we could think he is being misquoted. With Trump, no, he said it.

I am more conservative, or maybe just more traditional, than some posters here. But Trump? Really? He is not a conservative. He is not a friend of the working man. He is going to protect women even if they do not want to be protected in the manner that he envisions protecting them? Such as pointng guns at Liz Cheney's face?

Please, please, please. Can we please not elect this guy? We will all regret it. Yeah, yeah, time is about up. But please. I just say please.
Ken
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#22046 User is online   andrei 

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Posted Yesterday, 20:17

 kenberg, on 2024-November-01, 10:25, said:

I suppose he said it. With anyone else , we could think he is being misquoted. With Trump, no, he said it.


LOL

WaPo / NYT and the like consider y’all too lazy and dumb to figure out what he actually said.

And guess what: they are right.
Don't argue with a fool. He has a rested brain
Before internet age you had a suspicion there are lots of "not-so-smart" people on the planet. Now you even know their names.
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#22047 User is offline   PassedOut 

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Posted Yesterday, 20:35

View Postandrei, on 2024-November-01, 20:17, said:

LOL

WaPo / NYT and the like consider y’all too lazy and dumb to figure out what he actually said.

And guess what: they are right.


Ken gave an exact quote. As you are smart, what did you figure out that Trump actually said? Can you post that, or don't you really know?
The growth of wisdom may be gauged exactly by the diminution of ill temper. — Friedrich Nietzsche
The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists — that is why they invented hell. — Bertrand Russell
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#22048 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted Yesterday, 20:53

View PostPassedOut, on 2024-November-01, 20:35, said:

Ken gave an exact quote. As you are smart, what did you figure out that Trump actually said? Can you post that, or don't you really know?


The relevant section (with all his ramblings) of his interview/discussion with Tucker Carlson.

----

Look, she's a deranged person. The reason she doesn't like me is that she wanted to stay in her rack. She wanted to stay. She wants to... She's a tough, tough person. People get killed all over. She's real tough, right? They're not the tough people.

Don't forget, I went against her, and in her state, which is a great, beautiful state. She lost for Congress with the highest number in history. There has never been a congressperson that lost by almost 40 points. And the reason is because if they were ever in that situation, they'd quit. And she lost. She was beaten by a tremendous person, actually tremendous that I backed fully. But the reason she couldn't stand me is that she always She wanted to go to war with people. I don't want to go to war. She wanted to stay in Syria. I took them out. She wanted to stay in Iraq. I took them out. I mean, if it were up to her, we'd be in 50 different countries. And you know, Number one, it's very dangerous. Number two, a lot of people get killed. Number three, I mean, it's very, very expensive.That's why we owe $36 trillion. It used to be you go to war to the victor, belong to spoils, right? In other words, if you beat a country, you own that country, you take the oil, we go to war, we bomb the crap out of it, then we leave. It's almost like, what are we doing? What's going on? We bombed the whole Middle East. And then we left. What did we get? We got nothing. We destroyed. I mean, we bombed the hell out of everything. When they took out Iraq for a thousand years with different names, you had Iran and Iraq, similar powers. They were the two big ones. And for a thousand years, they would fight each other this way, this way, this way, then they'd rest, this way, then they'd rest. They were a self check. Then one day we go in and bomb the hell out of one, we destroy one. And then all of a sudden, Iran has the whole Middle East to itself. And by the way, right now, Iran has Iraq. Iraq is like a subsidiary of Iran, all right? We did so many bad moves, and her father was it.


I was very critical of her father for years. I'd never met him, but I'd say anybody that went into the Middle East, I thought was stupid. And they say, convinced Convince Bush. Bush. Oh, he was another beauty. But he supposedly convinced Bush to go in. Him, Bolton, and some other lightweights, convinced them to go in. Let's go into the Middle East and destroy the whole place and kill millions of people. So they went in. But I was never a fan of Cheney. I was always very critical. And when I announced that I was very critical, actually, not personally, but I said, he made a horrible mistake. What are these people doing? They're spending... We spent nine trillion trillion with a T, not even with a B. Normally, I say not million, billion, but now I say not billion, trillion. We spent nine trillion dollars bombing the hell out of the Middle East. And what the hell did we get other than lots of dead people, including our people? We got nothing. So I was very critical of him. And then I announced I was running, and I was shocked that he was one of the first people.

He endorsed me immediately. I said, That's amazing. But he had something that was very interesting. He had Scooter Liberty. I mean, these are little stories that are interesting. Scooter Liberty was a a man that could have done great destruction to Bush, and they left him behind. He was given to the prosecutors. They prosecuted him rather violently, and he was almost like a sacrificial lamb. And as somebody that knows a lot about what's happening, I said, if I were ever President, I'd do something with that guy. That guy got treated very badly, Scooter Libby. And when I became President, I actually called Dick Cheney. I said, Let me ask you about But Scooter Libby. He was best friends. He was begging Bush to give Scooter Libby a pardon, but Bush didn't have the courage to do it. It takes courage to give a pardon. It does take a certain courage because the press comes after, et cetera, et cetera. And he didn't have the courage to give him. He should have given him a pardon, but he didn't have the guts to do it. And what happened is Dick Cheney, for for years, for a long time, hated Bush.

And don't let anyone tell you he hated. He said, You don't leave your wounded behind. And I understand that. And Scooter Libby really saved Bush because he could have said things that would have been very dangerous for Bush in terms of getting impeached, in terms of going to jail, in terms of bad things happening. But Scooter Libby didn't do that. And in all fairness to Cheney, I give him credit for this. He was very loyal to him, but he couldn't get Bush to do what he should have done. I came into government and I did what they should have done. They didn't have the guts to do it. I did it. And Scooter Libby was pardoned. I gave him a pardon. I never met Scooter Libby, by the way. Never talked to him before that. And I got a call from Scooter Libby after I did that, and he broke down in tears thanking me so much. And then Cheney called me and he said, That was so incredible what you did for Scooter Libby, because he was really on Scooter Libby. Scooter Libby took a lot of heat and took all of it and didn't say Anything bad about Bush or Cheney or anything else could have done it.

I know because you have guys that do that and you have guys that lie, which is worse, right? But you have guys that do that. But he was very loyal to them, and he suffered greatly. I released him. Cheney called me. He said, It's one of the nicest things I've ever seen done in politics. I said, Look, I've heard for years he was treated unfairly. I've heard for years that Bush should have given him a pardon, or All I did is do something that somebody else should have done. And Cheney was so... He said, I really want to thank you. He said, Now I'm so glad that I actually endorsed you. It's amazing, but that you would do this. And I didn't I'll speak to him about it.

But then go a couple of years forward or go now, and I don't blame him for sticking with his daughter, but his daughter is a very dumb individual, very dumb. She's a radical warhawk. Let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. Okay, let's see how she feels about it when the guns are trained on her face. They're all warhawks when they're sitting in Washington in a nice building saying, oh, gee, well let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy.

But she's a stupid person. And I used to have meetings with a lot of people, and she always wanted to go to war with people. So whether it's her, whether it's Dick, I was surprised a little bit with Dick Cheney. I didn't know him at all. I only had essentially the one or two phone calls, and it was only a call saying, Thank you very much for doing that for Scooter Libby. That was nice. And Scooter Libby, by the way, was beyond... He couldn't believe that it happened. Nobody would do it. They should have done that for him years before. But I was a little surprised because I actually thought that Dick Cheney would go with me over his daughter, and he didn't. And you know what? I understand it. It's your daughter and you go, but she's a bad person.
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#22049 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted Today, 00:24

Well that's Trump all right - his weave is all warp and no weft.
Fortuna Fortis Felix
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