[whereagles]

You hold, at imps all vuln,

♠ Kxx
♥ J9
♦ AKxxx
♣ Axx

Pard you
1♣ 1♦
1♥ 1♠
2♦ ..?

1♥ shows 5-4 shape
1♠ is 4th suit
2♦ shows 1435 shape and around 11-14 points

Your bid? Note: 3♦ now would be forcing, and 3♣ as well.

[Chamaco]

3NT.

K in pard's singleton does not get me excited.

Pard has a max of 14 hcp.

We could play for the perfect hand: KQxxx in clubs + AK in H + Q of diamonds.

But IMO, this means hoping for too much.

Pard could miss the Q of diamonds, or a club honor or have the Ace of spades (when our SK becomes even more useless than it is now) and miss honors in the other suits.

[flytoox]

I like 3C. We are not going to play 3N with this hand. We will find out if we will play 5D or 6D. If 4D is RKC I think i will try that.

Another possible seqence is bid 2N now, pd may rebid 3c/d/3n, then we pull to 4C. But I think this sequence should show very strong slam interest.

[joker_gib]

Chamaco, on Mar 23 2005, 07:54 AM, said:

3NT.

K in pard's singleton does not get me excited.

Pard has a max of 14 hcp.

We could play for the perfect hand: KQxxx in clubs + AK in H + Q of diamonds.

But IMO, this means hoping for too much.

Pard could miss the Q of diamonds, or a club honor or have the Ace of spades (when our SK becomes even more useless than it is now) and miss honors in the other suits.

Mauro,

Are you sure you want to play 3NT ?

You will have to find 8 direct tricks after a ♠ lead !!!

[inquiry]

I bid 3NT as well..

Partner rates to be 1-4-3-5. Here we expect him not to have spade ACE, so his 11 to 15 points will be sprinkled into the other suits. To make slam, he has to be specifically, something like

♠x
♥AKxx
♦Qxx
♣KQxxx

Even here, you need the club suit and diamond suits to both split (5C, 5D, 2H), and this is the ideal hand for auction. 3NT makes easily enough on a spade lead here even if both minors fail to split. And with this hand, your partner would jump to 3♦ anyway.

Do of course your partner doesn't (can't have) that ideal hand, instead he clearly probalby holds queen less (or same hand with Kxxx of heart or Axxx of hearts), so with...

♠x          ♠x
♥AKxx    ♥AKxx
♦xxx      ♦Qxx
♣KQxxx   ♣Kxxxx

3NT is enough, hoping to run your long mnor (5C first case, 5D second). Someone once said don't play me for the perfect hand, I won't have it.. but don't play me for the worse hand either. MAking a slam try here or insisting on 5♦ seems unnecessary. Just bid 3NT and play normal bridge.

Ben

[Flame]

I bid 3C, id bid 3NT on my next turn. Im the last one who is scared to bid 3nt, but why not show partner my club fit first and that we have alternatives to 3nt.

[luis]

5♦ I agree a slam will be to pushy and I think a minor suit game should be equal or better than 3NT, since it's better to play from my side I'm bidding 5♦ first because it protects the sK from the lead and then because my second heart can be discarded in the clubs but pd's 4 hearts can't be discarded in my diamonds.

[Chamaco]

Flame, on Mar 23 2005, 01:58 PM, said:

Im the last one who is scared to bid 3nt, but why not show partner my club fit first and that we have alternatives to 3nt.

I think 3m strongly suggests we'll play best in a suit, and tends to deny S values.
I would bid 3m holding the Spade Ace, the only honor not wasted in a suit opposite pard's shortness..

[flytoox]

inquiry, on Mar 23 2005, 01:39 PM, said:

♠x
♥AKxx
♦Qxx
♣KQxxx

Even here, you need the club suit and diamond suits to both split (5C, 5D, 2H

No, Ben, I think you only need the trump breaks. If C is 4-1 it is ok. And I think this slam should be bid and even it goes down I wont mind.

Here though spade king is a waste, it is not much. As 1S is not necesarily real suit. 3N should imply 1S is real suit. But this is not the case and you do have club fit.

[whereagles]

sceptic, on Mar 23 2005, 01:13 PM, said:

what do you mean 1 spade is 4th suit, do you mean natural it is 4th suit or 4th suit as in an artificial force?

4th suit means it's an artificial bid, 1-round forcing and showing invitational or better values. We were playing Walsh, so if responder has spades he also has a game-force, in which case he now bids a natural 2S after 1C-1D-1H.

[mike777]

3nt
Yes playing for 9 running tricks and yes not playing for p to have perfect slam hand.

[pclayton]

3♣. 2♦ may be a forced preference on a 2425. Lets see where this hand is going first before we blast. I don't want to torture pard with a 3N call.

The delayed 3N shows a stopper, but shows some doubt as well. Isn't this the message you want to send?

[inquiry]

pclayton, on Mar 23 2005, 12:12 PM, said:

3♣. 2♦ may be a forced preference on a 2425. Lets see where this hand is going first before we blast. I don't want to torture pard with a 3N call.

The delayed 3N shows a stopper, but shows some doubt as well. Isn't this the message you want to send?

Sometimes it is hard to backup to 3NT on this auction to get in your Delayed bid... as it will be...

1C-1D
1H-1S
2D-3C
4C

or

1C-1D
1H-1S
2D-3D
4C/4D

After 2D, I have heard enough. But I agree with luis, if I am going for five of a minor, it is 5D, not five clubs, so I am not raising clubs....

Ben

[luke warm]

3C... he can ask for nt with 3S, he can bid 3D.. he can bid 5C even...

[pbleighton]

3NT.

Dangerous, but I think it's better than 50%, which is better than the alternatives.

Peter

[Walddk]

whereagles, on Mar 23 2005, 10:28 AM, said:

sceptic, on Mar 23 2005, 01:13 PM, said:

what do you mean 1 spade is 4th suit, do you mean natural it is 4th suit or 4th suit as in an artificial force?

4th suit means it's an artificial bid, 1-round forcing and showing invitational or better values. We were playing Walsh, so if responder has spades he also has a game-force, in which case he now bids a natural 2S after 1C-1D-1H.

Interesting, I like to reverse the meaning of 1♠ and 2♠. Everything is reversed these days, so why not this too.

1♠ is natural (1 round force), and 2♠ is artificial GF, denying 4 spades. I think it's better to show a natural suit as cheaply as possible.

With some partners I play 1♠ as ambiguous: either spades or 4th suit. Opener assumes 4th suit and bids accordingly. So NT now confirms a spade stopper.

Roland

[Rebound]

Just $0.02 worth- I don't play partner for the perfect slam hand, but my call is 3♣ since I think we probably ought to play this hand in 5 of a minor rather than 3NT, and it coincidentally leaves the door open if partner does happen to hold the magic hand. But that's just me lol....

[whereagles]

Thx all. Here are the hands

Scoring: IMP

---

A straightforward 3NT is indeed the good bid, though you can try 3♣ or 3♦ if you're feeling lucky.

Just guess what pard bid.. 4NT(!!), followed by 6♦. Not good... I put the hand here just to make sure I wasn't missing something.. lol.

[flytoox]

2N is as good as 3N at least. If you bid 3N, there is no way pd should do anything, if you bid 2N, with min hand pd can just raise to 3N. With max and control rich hand he can cuebid.

3N puts all egges in one basket.

[whereagles]

Walddk, on Mar 24 2005, 02:31 AM, said:

whereagles, on Mar 23 2005, 10:28 AM, said:

sceptic, on Mar 23 2005, 01:13 PM, said:

what do you mean 1 spade is 4th suit, do you mean natural it is 4th suit or 4th suit as in an artificial force?

4th suit means it's an artificial bid, 1-round forcing and showing invitational or better values. We were playing Walsh, so if responder has spades he also has a game-force, in which case he now bids a natural 2S after 1C-1D-1H.

Interesting, I like to reverse the meaning of 1♠ and 2♠. Everything is reversed these days, so why not this too.

1♠ is natural (1 round force), and 2♠ is artificial GF, denying 4 spades. I think it's better to show a natural suit as cheaply as possible.

With some partners I play 1♠ as ambiguous: either spades or 4th suit. Opener assumes 4th suit and bids accordingly. So NT now confirms a spade stopper.

Roland

We play 1S as artificial 4th suit because it keeps the bidding lower on strong hands. If you have a 5D and 4S and a game-force, you have a choice of bids: 1S or 2S, depending on what you need to know.