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Vul Pre-Empt Matchpoints

#1 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2015-June-23, 11:47



should I do anything over 3s? how about 4s?

we play 5 card major strong NT if it matters
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#2 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2015-June-23, 12:24

You have to assume your opps are not insane and likely have a 9 card fit. Partner will therefore have at least a 5 card diamond suit. Say: -, QJ10, AJxxx, QJxx. Here I have given partner 3 wasted points in clubs and you would be lucky to make 5. Improve partner's hand to KQxx 5look very good. The question is would partner re-open with a double with this hand?
I think I would go for 5. Double if you are more conservative and partner is very aggressive.
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#3 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-June-23, 12:25

I would pass 3, and think it to be clear, since we are effectively forcing to the 4-level if we double, and we can hardly expect a 4 call on our left, when he is a passed hand and we hold 4 spades, so we can expect partner to be able to bid over 3 if he has a hand that generates game opposite ours.

Having seen the surprising action by LHO, I have to confess that at mps I think double is best, tho I am worried about maybe RHO having a big black hand, with only 6 spades, and thus 3 spades, and shape, on my left.

If I have doubled, then I lead the club Ace, being grateful this is only mps, where a doubled overtrick is irrelevant :P I sure don't need much to go plus here.....a club, a quick entry to partner, a club ruff and one more red trick....surely odds on even with the worrying auction. Of course, maybe the opps are just nuts....

Note that I am giving up on being declarer. I think it to be close, but if partner has a 0=3=5=5, as is possible, then I think a 5 level red contract is too risky. If I were to bid, it would be 4N, planning to convert clubs to diamonds. If the opps were very solid players, I'd do that anyway, hoping to catch at least one 9 card fit, and being worried about N being very black.
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#4 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-June-23, 12:29

View PostWackojack, on 2015-June-23, 12:24, said:

You have to assume your opps are not insane and likely have a 9 card fit. Partner will therefore have at least a 5 card diamond suit. Say: -, QJ10, AJxxx, QJxx.


I think that that hand is a clear pass, especially with a spade void and only 12 cards. But even if you add a non-spade x, I don't like opening with 11 hcp and only one control card, when I don't have the spade suit. Opening light in a major has some preemptive/competitive advantages, especially in spades, while opening light in a minor sometimes makes it easier for the opps, who may hold majors without opening values.
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#5 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-23, 12:33

View Posteagles123, on 2015-June-23, 11:47, said:



should I do anything over 3s? how about 4s?

we play 5 card major strong NT if it matters


I would double over 3. I am expecting this to be minority choice but this is my gut feeling. After all pd has an opener w/o values and he is short in spades. I love my hand vs minimum and 4 card and if I can't find hearts I have diamonds to settle.

Now that the other guy bid 4, he is obviously bidding 4 with values and at most 2 or probably stiff spade.They are bidding to make it, but you have a lot of defensive values. You have to understand that if you bid they ain't bidding 5 and you will be playing doubled most of the time.

Your decision imo but if you are willing to bid then bid 4 NT not 5, 2 places to play. Pd still can have 4 card . But he will bid 5 most of the time because he is short in spades and he can probably play all other 3 suits. If pd bids 5 correct it to 5, now he knows you have hearts and some diamonds (with 4 or more diamonds you would bid 5 without 4 NT.
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#6 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-23, 12:51

View PostWackojack, on 2015-June-23, 12:24, said:

I think I would go for 5.


Why not 4 NT and correct 5 to 5?

Pd may have 0445 1444. You may think it is unlikely, but what do you lose by bidding 4 NT?
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#7 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2015-June-23, 17:52

I'd double 3.
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#8 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-June-24, 01:46

Timo: S is a passed hand so he must have some spades.

Anyway I agree with double in first round. Having passed I suppose I would double in second round.
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#9 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-24, 02:42

View Posthelene_t, on 2015-June-24, 01:46, said:

Timo: S is a passed hand so he must have some spades.

Anyway I agree with double in first round. Having passed I suppose I would double in second round.


As south I would 100 % bid 4 with 2 aces and a stiff spade, when my pd bids 3 red s white seeing me coming from pass. What I was trying to say is that he has at most 2 spades. If he has 3 then N has only 6 and he probably have 6-5 or something.

But yes, coming from pass I think double over 3 is called for. We would not be scratching our head now over 4.
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#10 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2015-June-24, 10:38

We see these types of hands a LOT where p appears to have a singleton or void in the opps suit and we hold nothing of value. It is a splinter situation but one where we "know" there are no wasted values in the opps' suit. Even if p is dead minimum there should be some reasonable play for 5d or 5h especially if p has a void. These kinds of situations practically scream for bidding further so I have to echo 4n at this point and even if I had x the first time around I would still bid 4n since p could all too easily be hampered by the all too real possibility we have "stuff" in spades and may wish to x.
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#11 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2015-June-24, 12:29

Well I generally like mikeh's POV but here I go with the analysis that pard is short in spades so we have no wasted values and my hand is golden for pard so . . . x over 3.

When he bids 5, I convert to s.
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#12 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2015-June-24, 14:56

View Postbiggerclub, on 2015-June-24, 12:29, said:

Well I generally like mikeh's POV but here I go with the analysis that pard is short in spades so we have no wasted values and my hand is golden for pard so . . . x over 3.

When he bids 5, I convert to s.

You don't know you have no wasted values after 3. It's not until opps raise to 4 that you can upgrade. So while some may double 3 it's not clear all our cards are working.
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#13 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-24, 15:09

View Poststeve2005, on 2015-June-24, 14:56, said:

You don't know you have no wasted values after 3. It's not until opps raise to 4 that you can upgrade. So while some may double 3 it's not clear all our cards are working.


Really? What do you think a reasonable player bids 3 with, red vs white when his pd coming from pass?

And what happens even if he has wasted spade hcps?

K
QJxx
KJxxx
Kxx

This is one of the worse hands you can get, wasted K, no Ace, wasted K and we play games worse than this everyday. And funny as it is, they are probably cold for 4.
Imagine preemptor has a pedestrian AQT9xxx x xx Jxx.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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