[pork rind]

Scoring: IMP

---

IN A CLOSE TEAM MATCH, PARTNER OPENS 1NT IN FIRST POSITION, RHO OVERCALLS 2D (ALERTED AS CAPP) . WE HAD NOT DISCUSSED LEBENSOHL. I CHOSE TO BID 3C THINKING THIS WAS FORCING. PASS PASS PASS OF COURSE AND 6 IS COLD IN CLUBS AND FAIRLY COLD IN DIAMONDS.
WHAT SHOULD I HAVE BID???? ANY THOUGHTS

[Walddk]

In a pick-up partnership I would have been worried about bidding 3♣ as forcing, so what about starting with a double? That will not be passed, and then I will think about something intelligent to bid after opps have taken out in one of their majors.

Roland

[whereagles]

Would 1NT-2D-5NT be any clearer for pard?

[ochinko]

Walddk, on Mar 14 2005, 06:16 AM, said:

In a pick-up partnership I would have been worried about bidding 3♣ as forcing, so what about starting with a double? That will not be passed, and then I will think about something intelligent to bid after opps have taken out in one of their majors.

Roland

I had the following incident on BBO. Vul/NV. I hold something like

KJxx
KQxx
QJxxx
-

LHO opens 3C, partner doubles, RHO passes, I bid 4C. All pass. To add the cherry to the cake partner called me crazy.

Petko

[Booze]

Hi

MO

5 nt is no good option !! P can have a hand like AKQJ , QJx, Qxx, Qxx Odds for making slam is very bad (almost impossible) even with maximum NT


dbl is the only option unless you use lebensohl, by dbl you force opps to act, I guess you wouldnt mind defending 2 ♦ dbl.! After your dbl and their major bid your minor!! (if dbl shows ♦ you can bid clubs now showing your 2 suiter), that bid has to be forcing, now you have lots of bidding space to find correct game or slam.

Booze

[Walddk]

ochinko, on Mar 14 2005, 08:22 AM, said:

Walddk, on Mar 14 2005, 06:16 AM, said:

In a pick-up partnership I would have been worried about bidding 3♣ as forcing, so what about starting with a double? That will not be passed, and then I will think about something intelligent to bid after opps have taken out in one of their majors.

Roland

I had the following incident on BBO. Vul/NV. I hold something like

KJxx
KQxx
QJxxx
-

LHO opens 3C, partner doubles, RHO passes, I bid 4C. All pass. To add the cherry to the cake partner called me crazy.

Petko

Well, I can only give you one advice: Find a new partner immediately! Even on Mars 4♣ wouldn't be natural (I am told)

Roland

[inquiry]

Booze, on Mar 14 2005, 09:34 AM, said:

dbl is the only option unless you use lebensohl, by dbl you force opps to act,

Double is hardly the only action... you could play a kind of unusual versus unusual where a bid of 2♥ shows good clubs, and a bid of 2♠ shows good diamonds.

I would like the opportunity to show one of my minors now, and the other one later. With an unknown pickup partner, of course, best shoot is double for now... nothing bad can happen at this point.

[TimG]

pork rind, on Mar 14 2005, 05:46 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

IN A CLOSE TEAM MATCH, PARTNER OPENS 1NT IN FIRST POSITION, RHO OVERCALLS 2D (ALERTED AS CAPP) . WE HAD NOT DISCUSSED LEBENSOHL. I CHOSE TO BID 3C THINKING THIS WAS FORCING. PASS PASS PASS OF COURSE AND 6 IS COLD IN CLUBS AND FAIRLY COLD IN DIAMONDS.
WHAT SHOULD I HAVE BID???? ANY THOUGHTS

I don't think it's unreasonable for opener to think 3♣ is non-forcing, given the number of forcing calls available to responder: 2♥, 2♠, DBL, 3♥, 3♠, 4♦, 4♣, etc.

I sort of like 3♠. If partner bids 3N over that, I can tuck it in a notch. If he doesn't bid 3N, I'm willing to drive to 6m.

[pork rind]

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(PARTNERS HAND)
I PLAY THAT X OF AN ARTIFICIAL OVERCALL OF 1NT SAYS I CAN X FOR PENALTY AT LEAST ONE OF THEIR SUITS. I ACTUALLY LIKE THE 5N BID AND CONSIDERED THAT. I DO WANT TO BE IN SLAM WITH THIS HAND. I DONT THINK PARTNER SHOULD PASS BUT I DONT GET MAD ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS. I JUST WONDERED IF ANYONE HAS A TREATMENT TO HANDLE THIS. WITH PARTNERS HAND I WOULD BID 3NT IN A SPLIT SECOND. THEN WHEN HE HEARS ME BID 5D HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING INTELLIGENT. AT LEAST THIS WAS MY REASONING.

[Walddk]

pork rind, on Mar 14 2005, 10:35 AM, said:

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(PARTNERS HAND)
I PLAY THAT X OF AN ARTIFICIAL OVERCALL OF 1NT SAYS I CAN X FOR PENALTY AT LEAST ONE OF THEIR SUITS. I ACTUALLY LIKE THE 5N BID AND CONSIDERED THAT. I DO WANT TO BE IN SLAM WITH THIS HAND. I DONT THINK PARTNER SHOULD PASS BUT I DONT GET MAD ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS. I JUST WONDERED IF ANYONE HAS A TREATMENT TO HANDLE THIS. WITH PARTNERS HAND I WOULD BID 3NT IN A SPLIT SECOND. THEN WHEN HE HEARS ME BID 5D HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING INTELLIGENT. AT LEAST THIS WAS MY REASONING.

All this is fine as long as you have an agreement, but you don't have too many with a pick-up partner. What is forcing for you may not be forcing for him. So if he thought 3♣ was sign off, he had to pass.

I think it's a good treatment to let double of 2♦ show a wish to double at least one of their majors, but if you later follow up with 3♣, it should be obvious that you have a different hand. Another option is to bid a direct 3♦ which most people play as forcing.

It's always with a bit of risk when you have no agreement. You did not on the actual hand, and the result was pretty depressing.

Roland

[TimG]

Sure there are treatments to handle these sorts of hands, though judgment will still come into play. Transfer lebensohl does well on this one. Bid 3♣ to show diamonds, then bid again when opener accepts the transfer (or bid again over the opponents' bid). You could transfer to diamonds and then bid 6♣, for instance.

I'm curious about why you chose to bid 3♣ instead of 3♦, diamonds being your longer suit.

Tim

PS You've given the ♥A to opener and responder. Did you getsomeone's majors backwards?

[pork rind]

my apoligies tim. i had ax of spades and void in hearts. got it mixed up on the post. i had not noticed.
i think 3d is a better bid. i bid 3c thinking pard might mistake 3d for stayman. as you can tell i was not really sure.

[Booze]

had the following incident on BBO. Vul/NV. I hold something like

KJxx
KQxx
QJxxx
-


I was at the other table in this match holding this hand !! Playing strong club with regular P

bidding went pass , my P 1 ♣ (17+), pass , 2 ♦ (8+ GF, unbalanced 5+ ♦)

3 ♣ from LHO, 3 ♦ from P ( good support, no 4 cards major , pass or dbl shows majors, 3 NT is for play) , 4 ♣ from RHO,

6 ♦ from me (values for slam , no first control in majors, ♣ first control) , pass LHO , 7 ♦ from P ( all his keycards working )

This match lasted only one board , opps at our table left

Booze

P:s hand AQx, Axx, AKxxx, Jxx

[Walddk]

Booze, on Mar 15 2005, 07:18 AM, said:

This match lasted only one board , opps at our table left

Booze

Very unfair of you to bid to the top spot! How can you expect anyone to sit down and play against you??

Roland

[Booze]

sadly opps didnt believe our bidding , but it was rather logical IMO

Booze

[TimG]

Booze, on Mar 15 2005, 07:18 AM, said:

had the following incident on BBO. Vul/NV. I hold something like

KJxx
KQxx
QJxxx
-

6 ♦ from me (values for slam , no first control in majors, ♣ first control) , pass LHO , 7 ♦ from P ( all his keycards working )

I'm not sure why 6♦ should logically show first round club control. Maybe opener, looking at his hand, can figure out that you musthave some first round control and that it can only be in clubs. But, why couldn't it be the ♣A instead of one of those major suit kings?

What would you bid with: QJx KQx Axxxxx x? You'd still want to bid 6♦, wouldn't you, but this time it wouldn't promise first round club control.

[inquiry]

Booze, on Mar 15 2005, 09:57 AM, said:

sadly opps didnt believe our bidding , but it was rather logical IMO

Booze

I would think a 6♣ bid would show the hand you describe, and a 6♦ bid would show a hand too good to stop short of slam, but only with second round club control. There is an implication here, because of no 5♣ club bid and no blackwood... would 5♣ be exclusion blackwood and 4NT normal blackwood?