[inquiry]

mike777, on Mar 15 2005, 09:56 AM, said:

Did I miss something here? Are we not always bidding some game here across from a 2nt (20 -21) opening bid? If not could someone please explain, thanks.

The question arose not from the shown responder's hand, but from the statement that ANY bid opposite a strong 2NT opening bid is game force. That implies if partner bids 3♥ or 3♦ (jacoby) game must be reached. This has implications for superaccepts and tke like (since no fear of partner passing), and implications for the meaning of 2N-3♥-3♠, since opener knows the auction is game force, he could choose to rebid 3NT instead of complete the transfer with a singleton or double spade, for instance.

I do not play jacoby is game force, but I do play that 3♣ stayman is game force.

Ben

[TimG]

Jlall, on Mar 15 2005, 01:26 AM, said:

i would just transfer and bid 3N. I guess im oldschool now lol.

I don't think that makes you old school; I imagine that most players would have bid Stayman 40 years ago.

[Free]

whereagles, on Mar 15 2005, 12:31 PM, said:

So what's the idea? Always play the good major-suit game and forget about sign-offs?

It's about slam bidding. Only if partner doesn't have support, he'll just bid 3M (accepting) or 3NT (with 5 cards in the other M). Usually you have a Major fit or a playable 3-level contract when the transfer isn't accepted.

The average HCP of responder is somewhere around 6.5 HCP, so you should be able to handle game in most situations, but if there's slam we want to use the little bidding space we have left as good as possible.

The way I play it, Jacoby transfers aren't GF, but they usually turn out that way. If opener accepts the transfer, responder can pass... Other bids are GF, obviously.

[joker_gib]

Free, on Mar 15 2005, 09:28 AM, said:

If opener accepts the transfer, responder can pass... Other bids are GF, obviously.

Same for me of course because the opener's hand is limited !

[inquiry]

Free, on Mar 15 2005, 10:28 AM, said:

The way I play it, Jacoby transfers aren't GF, but they usually turn out that way. If opener accepts the transfer, responder can pass... Other bids are GF, obviously.

Well Joker says ANY bid over 2NT is game force, and you agreed with that. Of course, any bid over 2NT usually turns out to end up in game. There are two reasons for this, usually responder bids again, and it is asking a lot to stop exactly in 3♥ or 3♠ and that be the precise right spot. On the other hand, we are all familar with the rule that auctions that go...

(2NT)-P-(P)-?

Should probably be doubled without much regards for what is in your hand. If you play against people who know this rule, and you are broke, you might not want to stick it out in 2NT after 2NT-P to you. When I bid jacoby and pass partenrs response, i am hoping to go down less than I would have in 2NT, in most instances. If I think I can make 3, I will obviously be trying for four in most cases.

Ben

[Free]

inquiry, on Mar 15 2005, 03:37 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 15 2005, 10:28 AM, said:

The way I play it, Jacoby transfers aren't GF, but they usually turn out that way.  If opener accepts the transfer, responder can pass...  Other bids are GF, obviously.

Well Joker says ANY bid over 2NT is game force, and you agreed with that. ~snip~

Ben

If you read Joker's method in detail, you'll notice that when opener rebids 3M without a fit, RESPONDER isn't obligated to bid. Opener can never pass whenever game isn't reached yet, but responder always can.

I agreed mostly on the "I'm happy with that", and I play a similar method.

[joker_gib]

Yes, it's just as Free said !

If you feel that playing 3M without fit is probably better than 2NT then you can pass.

But of course, each time you bid a transfer, you have to assume the 4th level if partner has a fit

Is it clearer like that ?

[whereagles]

Thanks for the info on the game-forcing transfers thing. That's an interesting theoretical idea. Might give it some thought at some stage.